In this episode, Nora and Marcus wade into the bizarre right-wing war on empathy—where Elon Musk, JD Vance, and others claim that caring about other people is a threat to civilization itself. But beyond the absurdity, they trace how empathy has been weaponized, misunderstood, and hollowed out—from Clinton-era politics to today’s culture wars. Together, they ask: How should we show up and care in a time of polycrisis? s empathy even enough? Or do we need something deeper—like solidarity, discomfort, and the hard, daily work of being human with one another?

Mentioned in the episode:

Celebrity Imagine cringe video | Braver Angels | Pope Francis letter to Vance | Crowded Out | Toxic Empathy | Bishop Marian Budde | Guardian - Julia Carrie Wong | Tech Won’t Save Us

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Sound Effect by freesound_community from Pixabay

Sound Effect by Universfield from Pixabay

Mentioned in the episode:

• So the No Kings March Happened. What Next? (Marcus Harrison Green, South Seattle Emerald)

• Erica Chenoweth

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast | https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social

*Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron

In this episode Nora and Marcus dive headfirst into the dystopian text thread we’re all living in: ICE raids in broad daylight, masked agents snatching people off the streets, media complicity, and the federal government going full “authoritarian starter pack.” But rather than stew in our fear, today’s guests offer pragmatic lessons about what we face and what can be done. Professor Angelina Godoy, a human rights scholar, breaks down how U.S. immigration enforcement is veering into the territory of international crimes, and Principal Jamie Cook describes how her small-town school community mobilized to free detained students and take a stand against ICE. It’s a moving, unflinching conversation about civic bravery, the power of everyday people, and what it truly means to show up when the stakes are high and the fear is real. Listen in and get inspired.

Mentioned in the episode:

• The Guardian reported in April, “Despite the common refrain that the Trump 2.0 protests have been tepid, research from Harvard’s Crowd Counting Consortium showed that there were twice as many street protests between 22 January of this year and March than in the same period in Trump’s first term.”

• The Courage Project’s civic bravery awards

• Read more about Sackets Harbor and its response to ICE.

• More on the Seattle family of 6 detained in horrific conditions for 24 days.

• La Resistencia’s work at the Northwest Detention Center

Connections for those who want to get involved:

Community Defense Project | Organized Communities Against Deportation | Community patrolling by Union del Barrio in LA

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast | https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social

*Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron

Five years after a global pandemic, historic protests, and social rupture, where are we now—and what have we forgotten? In this episode, Nora and Marcus Harrison Green dive into the lingering impacts of 2020, from fractured families to the backlash against empathy itself. With humor, honesty, and a touch of John Mayer fandom, they explore how we hold memory, process grief, and dare to vision something better in a nation that feels like a group project where half the class didn’t show up. This is an episode about collective endurance, radical imagination, and finding joy, however strange or small, while still stuck in the “meanwhile.” If you’ve ever wondered why things feel both over and still happening then this one’s for you.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Pew Poll on impacts of pandemic

• Affective Polarization

• Reply All - “The Least You Could Do”

• Nudibranchs

• 1M Experiments

• Nancy Pelosi in her Kente Cloth

Further reading / Listening:

Marcus’ piece on the Othello BLM march in 2020 | Nora’s research on mutual aid networks | Arundhati Roy @ Financial Times | You’re Wrong About podcast on losing relatives to FoxNews and QAnon

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast

https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social

*Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron

Welcome to the premiere of In the Meanwhile—a podcast for anyone trying to survive the slow-motion apocalypse without losing their soul (or their sense of humor). Professor Nora Kenworthy and journalist Marcus Harrison Green kick things off with a candid, funny, and heartfelt conversation about what it means to live through this messy in-between era—where the old world is collapsing, the new one isn’t here yet, and the group chat is full of existential dread.

Born out of pandemic grief, political exhaustion, and the need to build something meaningful, this first episode explores what it means to live through a time of collapse without becoming a monster, how to hold onto your humanity when the headlines hit harder than your therapist’s out-of-office reply, and why Bob Ross might be the spiritual leader we don’t deserve but need right now.

This is part secular sermon, part group therapy, part dinner table rant with your smartest friends—the ones who still believe in hope, justice, and eight ounces of joy per episode. No hot takes, no empty platitudes—just real talk about how we hold onto our humanity, build community, and figure out what the hell we’re doing in the meanwhile.

New episodes drop every Friday. Bring snacks. Bring questions. We’re muddling through this together.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Readying to Rise: Essays by Marcus Harrison Green

• Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare

• The South Seattle Emerald

• Hinton Publishing

• Nora and Marcus at Town Hall Seattle

• Martin Demant Frederiksen writing about pandemic mean/time

• Antonio Gramsci on the time of monsters

• Ad Astra

• Bob Ross on YouTube

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast

https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social

*Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

The old world is collapsing. The new one hasn’t arrived. And in between? There’s grief, confusion, burnout—and the possibility for something better.

Welcome to In The Meanwhile, a weekly podcast hosted by public health scholar Nora Kenworthy and journalist Marcus Harrison Green.

No hot takes. No empty platitudes. No easy hope. Just real talk about how we hold onto our humanity, build something better—and maybe even laugh along the way.

Bring snacks. Bring questions. Bring critical thinking skills—they’ve been in a coma since 1997. We’re figuring this out together.