In this episode, Nora and Marcus wade into the bizarre right-wing war on empathy—where Elon Musk, JD Vance, and others claim that caring about other people is a threat to civilization itself. But beyond the absurdity, they trace how empathy has been weaponized, misunderstood, and hollowed out—from Clinton-era politics to today’s culture wars. Together, they ask: How should we show up and care in a time of polycrisis? s empathy even enough? Or do we need something deeper—like solidarity, discomfort, and the hard, daily work of being human with one another?

Mentioned in the episode:

Celebrity Imagine cringe video | Braver Angels | Pope Francis letter to Vance | Crowded Out | Toxic Empathy | Bishop Marian Budde | Guardian - Julia Carrie Wong | Tech Won’t Save Us

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Sound Effect by freesound_community from Pixabay

Sound Effect by Universfield from Pixabay

Mentioned in the episode:

• So the No Kings March Happened. What Next? (Marcus Harrison Green, South Seattle Emerald)

• Erica Chenoweth

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast | https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social

*Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron

In this episode Nora and Marcus dive headfirst into the dystopian text thread we’re all living in: ICE raids in broad daylight, masked agents snatching people off the streets, media complicity, and the federal government going full “authoritarian starter pack.” But rather than stew in our fear, today’s guests offer pragmatic lessons about what we face and what can be done. Professor Angelina Godoy, a human rights scholar, breaks down how U.S. immigration enforcement is veering into the territory of international crimes, and Principal Jamie Cook describes how her small-town school community mobilized to free detained students and take a stand against ICE. It’s a moving, unflinching conversation about civic bravery, the power of everyday people, and what it truly means to show up when the stakes are high and the fear is real. Listen in and get inspired.

Mentioned in the episode:

• The Guardian reported in April, “Despite the common refrain that the Trump 2.0 protests have been tepid, research from Harvard’s Crowd Counting Consortium showed that there were twice as many street protests between 22 January of this year and March than in the same period in Trump’s first term.”

• The Courage Project’s civic bravery awards

• Read more about Sackets Harbor and its response to ICE.

• More on the Seattle family of 6 detained in horrific conditions for 24 days.

• La Resistencia’s work at the Northwest Detention Center

Connections for those who want to get involved:

Community Defense Project | Organized Communities Against Deportation | Community patrolling by Union del Barrio in LA

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast | https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social

*Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron