Épisodes

  • Convictions vs Contradictions In Marketing

    Convictions vs Contradictions In Marketing
    Jun 16 2025
    Stan McChrystal reveals why character equals conviction multiplied by discipline – and why this military wisdom transforms how we approach marketing authenticity in a world obsessed with quick wins. Andy Clark’s neuroscience research exposes how our brains work as prediction machines, explaining why marketing messages that create massive prediction errors trigger emotional retreat rather than engagement. A classic case of consumer confidence collapse in the US demonstrates why sitting still during uncertainty isn’t staying neutral – it’s choosing entropy. TAA’s spectacularly awful airline advertisement becomes a masterclass in how not to talk down to your customers while claiming to care about them. Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 01:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.Stan McChrystal’s Character Mathematics When a four-star general who cleaned up military messes in Iraq and Afghanistan distils his life philosophy into a simple formula, smart marketers listen. Steve and David unpack Stan McChrystal’s deceptively straightforward equation from his book “On Character“: character equals conviction multiplied by discipline. McChrystal’s insights from military selection processes reveal a profound truth about human nature – success isn’t about brilliance or superhuman abilities. As he explains, most people who attempt elite military training don’t fail; they quit. The differentiator isn’t talent but persistence, the willingness to keep showing up when everything screams at you to stop. David draws fascinating parallels between military selection and business success, noting how former elite soldiers consistently excel in civilian careers. They bring that same commitment to convictions and discipline to turn up every day, dramatically increasing their likelihood of success. The hosts explore whether we should develop conviction or discipline first, concluding that while we all have beliefs, true convictions require deliberate thought and commitment – the kind that’s worth applying discipline to achieve. The McChrystal snippet in the podcast is taken from the Chris Williamson interview. How To Actually Build Discipline, here: 10:30 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.Your Brain as Marketing’s Ultimate Gatekeeper Andy Clark’s revelatory book “The Experience Machine” fundamentally changes how we understand consumer attention. Steve and David dive deep into the neuroscience of perception, revealing that what we experience as reality begins as our brain’s best guess about what’s happening next. Our brains function as sophisticated prediction machines, constantly throwing out expectations about sensory input and checking whether reality matches. When there’s minimal difference between prediction and reality, we coast through life on autopilot – think about driving home from work and arriving with no memory of the journey. But when prediction errors occur, our brains snap to attention, demanding energy to reassess and adjust. This has profound implications for marketing creativity. Small prediction errors create delightful “aha” moments that make audiences feel clever and engaged. But massive prediction errors trigger our limbic system, shifting us from rational thinking to emotional self-protection. David emphasises how this explains why slightly novel marketing succeeds while bizarre creativity often backfires spectacularly. The hosts connect this to comedy, noting how masters like Robin Williams and Billy Connolly create accessible novelty – talking about ordinary life with slightly unexpected twists that include rather than alienate their audience. The lesson for marketers: be more like a welcoming restaurant than a snooty maître d’ who makes customers feel inadequate. The Andy Clark snippet is taken from his interview on The Dissenter, here: 23:30 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.When Waiting Becomes Worse Than Acting Drawing from recent economic uncertainty in the US, David highlights a critical business lesson disguised as current affairs. When President Trump’s policies triggered consumer confidence drops and credit rating downgrades, American businesses and consumers responded predictably – they waited for things to improve before making important decisions. This seemingly rational response masks a dangerous reality: not making decisions when problems exist isn’t neutral positioning. Problems don’t pause politely while we gather courage or wait for better conditions. They accumulate, compound, and often become more expensive to solve over time. Steve and David frame this as essential self-audit territory for business owners. What decisions are you postponing because the timing doesn’t feel right? While you’re waiting, your customers and...
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    34 min
  • Should You Apply French Revolution Insights In Branding And Have More Skin In The Game?

    Should You Apply French Revolution Insights In Branding And Have More Skin In The Game?
    May 26 2025
    Belle Baker’s thoughtful response to our previous episode on conversational power sparks a deeper exploration into the magic words that either constrain or liberate our thinking. When we default to asking “what should we do?” we’re unknowingly shutting down possibilities, but shifting to “what could we do?” opens creative floodgates. Steve draws unexpected parallels between the French Revolution’s rebranding strategy and modern business transformation, questioning whether today’s rebrand obsessions serve customers or merely cure internal boredom. David cuts through email protection scam sophistication with his characteristic directness, while our Perspicacity segment celebrates the raw authenticity of a 1978 Ford Falcon advertisement that put actual racing legends in harm’s way to prove a point about precision and trust. Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 01:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.When Sorry Becomes a Linguistic Crutch Belle Baker’s follow-up to our previous conversation about conversational power strikes at something fundamental about how we diminish our own presence through careless word choices. Her observation about women apologising for taking up space resonates beyond gender dynamics to reveal how automatically saying “sorry” for shared inconveniences robs our communications of intentionality. But the real revelation comes through Dr Jonah Berger’s research (Magic Words) on the creative constraints hidden in plain sight. His studies demonstrate that asking “what should I do?” unconsciously narrows our thinking to a single correct answer, while “what could I do?” expands our cognitive horizon to encompass multiple possibilities. Steve and David unpack how this linguistic shift transforms not just individual problem-solving but team dynamics, with David noting that “could” invites genuine collaboration while “should” often steamrolls over other perspectives. The implications extend beyond creativity to agency itself — when we frame challenges as having multiple potential solutions, we bring people along as co-creators rather than task-followers. 11:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.Revolutionary Lessons in Rebranding The French Revolution’s approach to visual identity offers surprisingly modern insights into the art of organisational transformation. Through Jacques-Louis David’s painting work and revolutionary festivals, the new republic deliberately adopted Roman aesthetics to distance itself from rejected monarchical symbols while establishing credible alternatives. As our historian notes from The Rest Is History podcast, “There is no government without rituals and without symbols” — a principle that translates directly to business rebranding efforts. Steve and David explore how this historical example challenges contemporary rebranding approaches that often prioritise internal novelty over external necessity. Too many rebrandings emerge from organisational boredom rather than strategic imperative, forgetting that most customers experience brands as occasional “glancing blows” rather than daily encounters. The French Revolution’s success lay in combining the best cultural elements worth preserving with genuinely transformative new principles — liberty, equality, fraternity — rather than throwing everything out for the sake of change. David emphasises the crucial implementation phase: new symbols and rituals only gain meaning through consistent repetition and demonstration of improved outcomes. 19:30 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.The Sophistication of Modern Email Deception Email protection scams have evolved beyond obvious Nigerian prince territory into convincingly professional presentations that exploit our legitimate security concerns. Steve dissects a particularly sophisticated example featuring pre-selected radio buttons, personalised details, and urgent 24-hour deadlines designed to bypass our critical thinking faculties. The solution lies in deliberately engaging what David identifies as our slower, more analytical thinking system rather than the fast, automatic responses these scams exploit. Having trusted advisors to verify suspicious communications creates a crucial circuit breaker against social engineering attacks that increasingly target small business owners through carefully crafted authenticity. 22:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.When Advertising Had Skin in the Game The 1978 Ford Falcon advertisement featuring six champion racing drivers standing as human targets while another driver weaves between them at over 90 kilometres per hour represents a vanished era of marketing authenticity. Allan Moffat, Colin Bond, John Goss,...
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    29 min
  • Sorry. Not Sorry. You'll Want To Hear This.

    Sorry. Not Sorry. You'll Want To Hear This.
    May 13 2025
    Rutger Bregman challenges us to create ripple effects from small personal changes that benefit entire communities. Jefferson Fisher revolutionises everyday communication by eliminating power-draining language and embracing uncomfortable directness. A hotel chain’s tone-deaf Mother’s Day spam highlights the need for sensitivity in seasonal marketing. And Golden North’s Giant Twin ice cream becomes a lens for examining whether sharing still resonates in modern advertising. Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 02:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.Creating Space for Moral Ambition Starting with Rutger Bregman’s “Moral Ambition: Stop Wasting Your Talent and Start Making a Difference,” our hosts explore the delicate balance between self-care and societal impact, thanks to Bregman’s appearance on the Making Sense podcast with Sam Harris. Steve introduces the concept of a “Draper Day” (inspired by Mad Men’s Don Draper), suggesting we all need occasional disappearances for genuine recharge – not just mental health days, but proper disconnection. David connects Bregman’s philosophy to the recent Australian federal election, where voters rejected divisive politics that “pointed fingers” and embraced competition over cooperation. The discussion reveals how entropy means nothing maintains itself without effort – whether that’s democracy, business culture, or personal wellbeing. As David notes, every day requires doing “the next necessary thing” to make life better for yourself and those around you. 11:30 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.The Art of Not Apologising (And Other Communication Revelations) Jefferson Fisher’s “The Next Conversation” provides a masterclass in communication refinement that had both hosts reconsidering their linguistic habits. This young Texan attorney’s approach centres on three transformative principles that challenge comfortable communication patterns. First, stop cheapening apologies – replace “sorry I’m late” with “thank you for waiting.” Second, eliminate minimising language like “just” that undermines your right to participate. David recalls teaching university students, particularly women, to stop diminishing their contributions. Third, deliver difficult news directly – the segment’s most confronting lesson involves firing an employee without false pleasantries that raise cruel hope before crushing it. Steve’s admission of chronic over-apologising and David’s observations about gendered language patterns reveal how these seemingly minor shifts dramatically alter perceived authority and confidence. 24:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.When Mother’s Day Marketing Hits Raw Nerves Michael Mills’ scorching Facebook post about receiving multiple Mother’s Day lunch promotions after his mother’s death launches a necessary conversation about marketing sensitivity. The hotel chain’s spam campaign represents a broader failure to consider diverse customer circumstances during emotionally charged holidays. Our hosts highlight positive examples, including Café Belgiorno‘s thoughtful approach acknowledging that for some, Mother’s Day involves cherished memories rather than current celebrations. Etsy’s proactive strategy emerges as best practice – sending pre-emptive emails asking if customers want to opt out of Mother’s Day and Father’s Day promotions entirely. This segment underscores how genuine empathy in marketing requires anticipating customer pain points, not just chasing seasonal revenue. 27:30 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.The Evolution of Sharing (Through the Lens of Ice Cream) Golden North‘s marketing journey provides fascinating insight into changing social dynamics through their iconic Giant Twin – an ice cream designed to be snapped and shared. From early provenance-focused ads emphasising their Laura, South Australia heritage to clever visual gags of see-through cows, the brand’s evolution mirrors broader advertising trends. The revelation comes in a 2021 video featuring twins recounting childhood Giant Twin memories – many involving tears and tantrums over forced sharing. This “scarily refreshing” honesty acknowledges that their sharing-focused product often caused conflict rather than fostering harmony. Our hosts explore whether modern campaigns should embrace our increasing individualism (couples buying two) or remind us of sharing’s value. Steve’s vision of children using protractors to divide ice cream mathematically captures both the absurdity and truth of human nature. The discussion ultimately questions whether the “mini taste of sacrifice” inherent in sharing still resonates in ...
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    40 min
  • The Trouble With Toying Around in Archetypes and Branding

    The Trouble With Toying Around in Archetypes and Branding
    Apr 28 2025
    In Person, we discover why songwriters and business folk alike benefit from fresh eyes that ask the right questions, revealing how collaboration creates outcomes greater than the sum of their parts. Principles explores whether archetypes offer genuine strategic value for businesses or simply provide convenient shortcuts to avoid the hard work of authentic brand development. Problems exposes dubious attempts to charge for Google indexing services that should always be free, reminding us that snake oil salespeople are always finding new bottles. And in Perspicacity, we examine the peculiar trend of executives creating AI-generated action figures of themselves, highlighting the troubling difference between what we can do and what we should do. Are we creating meaningful content or just chasing dopamine? Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 02:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.When Another Set of Eyes Asks the Perfect Question What can business owners learn from musical collaborations? Quite a lot, it seems. Drawing from an anecdote about a young composer seeking feedback from a musical theatre legend from Econtalk episode Weep, Shudder, Die: The Secret of Opera Revealed (with Dana Gioia), we discover the power of the perfect question at the right moment. The story features a nervous student bravely presenting a rock opera-style composition based on Ayn Rand’s “Anthem” to a renowned composer. After the impressive performance, rather than offering generic praise or criticism, the master simply asks: “In that instrumental section—what will be happening on stage?” This deceptively simple question opens up entirely new dimensions of thinking. Steve and David explore how this mirrors their experiences in business mentoring, where often it’s not expertise but rather fresh perspective that catalyses breakthroughs. “It’s that wise old head asking that little bit… What are your characters doing on stage at that time?” Steve notes, highlighting how external viewpoints can illuminate blind spots we’ve developed through overexposure to our own work. The conversation reveals a particularly Australian challenge: our tendency toward isolation in small business compared to more collaborative approaches in other entrepreneurial cultures. “In the place that’s meant to be fixated on rugged individualism, there’s a heck of a lot more trying to socialise, connect, and just add value in the ferment of enthusiasm,” David observes about American business culture. 12:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.Archetypes as Branding Shortcuts – Compass or Crutch? When Jane McCarthy’s work on feminine archetypes in branding enters the conversation, both hosts approach with healthy scepticism while remaining open to potential value. “I think archetypes are such a double-edged thing,” David reflects, cutting to the heart of the matter: “It’s nice to be recognisable, but if you’re recognisable as an archetype, are you necessarily being recognised as you?” The discussion reveals that archetypes might function best as internal navigational tools rather than external identities. McCarthy’s concept of a “hometown hostess” archetype, as quoted from Marketing Over Coffee episode, The Goddess Guide To Branding, demonstrates how these frameworks provide shorthand for brand behaviour – a “true north” that teams can understand even when founders or consultants aren’t present. This sparks reflection on the mindset behind effective branding: not just selecting colours or crafting taglines, but establishing behavioural patterns that guide decision-making. “Every time you see it, it reinforces quickly… how it is to be on track when you are representing the brand, when you are living as the brand,” Steve explains. The hosts conclude that archetypes might complement rather than replace frameworks like StoryBrand, potentially offering valuable shortcuts when they help teams stay aligned with founding principles. The key insight emerges: an archetype without a story lacks context, while a story without consistent character lacks coherence. 25:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.The Elaborate Con of Charging for Free Services The dubious email promising to “add your domain to Google Search Index” for a fee provides a perfect case study in digital snake oil. “Here’s someone paying for something that’s free,” Steve observes, breaking down the scam’s mechanics with mounting exasperation. The discussion exposes how predatory services exploit knowledge gaps among business owners, charging for basic services that Google offers freely through Search Console. The investigation reveals increasingly troubling details – from fake customer service numbers to overly broad privacy ...
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    42 min
  • You're Just Too Good To Be True

    You're Just Too Good To Be True
    Apr 14 2025
    Will Guidara’s journey from awestruck 12-year-old at the Four Seasons to creating one of the world’s best restaurants reveals what “unreasonable hospitality” truly means. Disney’s insistence on breathing animatronic birds teaches us why perfection in unseen details creates experiences customers can feel. Steve confesses how a questionable radio crossfade between Deep Purple and Smokie’s Oh Carol sparked an 18-year broadcasting career, while David shares how a teacher’s inspired intervention led him to discover his guiding principle: “how you do anything is how you do everything.” All this, plus a practical solution to website bottlenecks and a healthy skepticism about whether traditional pricing psychology still applies in our cashless world. Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 01:15 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.Those Childhood Moments That Define Our Future Selves Nothing shapes a career path quite like those lightning bolt moments from childhood. Will Guidara, in his brilliant book Unreasonable Hospitality, recounts how his entire professional trajectory was set at age 12 when a Four Seasons server called him “sir” after dropping his napkin. That dignified treatment, the refusal to make a child feel small in a sophisticated space, ignited his passion for hospitality. Steve and David explore how these formative experiences shape our professional identities, with Steve confessing his own watershed moment came at precisely the same age—albeit sparked by something considerably less profound: a jarring radio crossfade between Deep Purple’s Smoke On The Water and Smokie’s Oh Carol that had him thinking, “That looks easy—and you’d get all the girls.” Despite its dubious inspiration, that moment launched an 18-year broadcasting career that no careers counsellor could talk him out of. David’s path proved distinctly different, with uncertainty rather than clarity defining his early professional thoughts. His transformative moment came through a teacher who, recognising his analytical mind (and argumentative tendencies), arranged legal work experience that taught him a crucial lesson: “how you do anything is how you do everything”—a principle that would resurface throughout the episode. 09:30 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.Disney Birds Must Breathe: The Power of Unreasonable Precision Will Guidara’s Unreasonable Hospitality offers a masterclass in intentionality that has Steve and David unpacking its transformative implications for every aspect of business. Guidara’s approach at Eleven Madison Park—requiring staff to position plates so manufacturer stamps would face right-side up if a guest flipped them over—exemplifies what Walt Disney understood decades earlier: “People can feel perfection.” When Disney’s Imagineers protested that no one would notice whether their animatronic birds appeared to breathe in the Enchanted Tiki Room, Disney insisted they add the feature, understanding that details create an emotional response even when not consciously registered. The hosts explore how this meticulous attention applies beyond hospitality—it’s about creating an environment where precision becomes second nature. David connects this to his experiences in Special Operations training, where he witnessed firsthand how an entire culture of exactitude made everyone’s work smoother and more effective. This precision extends to the mundane: putting staplers back exactly where they belong and refilling paper before it runs out. Steve introduces his emerging household philosophy of considering “the next person”—leaving things right for whoever follows, even if that person is your future self. David traces this mindset back to his Hungarian grandmother, who instinctively prepared everything for its next use before walking away. In both hospitality and life, the way you do one thing truly becomes the way you do everything. 18:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.Unblocking the Website Bottleneck What keeps projects stalled in the “too hard” basket? Steve and David examine how their new “Website in a Week” offering tackles three common bottlenecks that plague small business websites. First, there’s the blank page problem—small business owners facing writer’s block when asked to create their own content. Steve’s solution: “Give me 30 minutes of your time. I’ll interview you and take content creation completely off your plate.” Then there’s the deadline dilemma. Without clear timeframes, projects languish indefinitely. The “in a week” commitment creates urgency and clarity for everyone involved. Finally, they address the perfection trap—that paralysing fear of launching something that isn’t 100% perfect. Their ...
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    30 min
  • The Book About Careless People That Thoughtful People Should Read

    The Book About Careless People That Thoughtful People Should Read
    Mar 31 2025
    Willie Nelson once said you should “get to the heart of feelings and keep it to a minimum” for maximum effect. We wish Facebook had taken that advice before building an empire on manipulating our emotions. Sarah Wynn-Williams lifts the veil on tech’s “move fast and break things” mantra in her revealing memoir of life inside Meta’s walls. David shares his belated Facebook awakening and the initial joy of reconnecting with students and overseas friends—before the platform’s heavy-handed manipulation became impossible to ignore. Steve conducts a post-mortem on our collective social media naivety, tracing the path from wide-eyed optimism to the sobering reality of platforms that profit most when humanity is divided, angry, and clicking. Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 01:15 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.Sarah Wynn-Williams’ Cautionary Tale of Idealism in Silicon Valley Sarah Wynn-Williams’ journey from diplomatic service to Facebook’s corridors of power offers a fascinating window into tech’s hollow promises. Her book “Careless People” details how her desire to make a positive difference in the world led her to Facebook—where she discovered idealism is no match for growth at all costs. As David notes, it’s remarkable that someone so committed to values could survive within the company’s ecosystem for as long as she did. Her tenacious belief that Facebook could become a force for good provides a poignant contrast to the “move fast and break things” mindset embedded in the company’s DNA. The hosts reflect on how many of us “drank the Kool-Aid” during social media’s early days, creating genuine connections before algorithmic manipulation became the norm. While David found accessibility benefits in Facebook’s ability to reconnect him with students and overseas friends, even these positive experiences came with hidden costs that Wynn-Williams’ book painfully exposes. 13:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.Free Speech Champions Until The Speech Isn’t Free (of Criticism) In a masterclass of hypocrisy, the tech industry’s self-proclaimed defenders of free expression reveal their true colors when the spotlight turns on them. Steve highlights the book’s uncertain future as Meta attempts to silence Wynn-Williams through legal manoeuvres—ironic for a company whose leadership constantly wraps itself in free speech rhetoric. The discussion explores Facebook’s calculated approach to political influence, including the shocking revelation of how they embedded staff within Trump’s 2016 campaign while employing sophisticated proicesses for micro-targeting voters. As Wynn-Williams recounts, Zuckerberg’s reaction to learning of his platform’s role in the election outcome wasn’t moral reflection but rather fascination with his own potential political aspirations. Most disturbing is what the hosts describe as the “absent moral dimension” throughout the company’s decision-making. From offering surveillance capabilities to authoritarian governments to designing systems that profit from societal division, the book exposes how ethical considerations consistently take a backseat to user acquisition and engagement metrics. 23:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.When “Connecting People” Becomes a Weapon The most harrowing segment delves into Facebook’s role in the Myanmar genocide, where military operatives weaponised the platform to spread misinformation and incite violence against the Muslim population. Steve and David confront the ethical dilemma this presents to marketers and users alike. While acknowledging the platform’s continuing utility as a communication tool, they announce their decision to adopt an “organic social media only” policy, refusing to funnel client advertising dollars into Meta’s coffers. The hosts grapple with the uncomfortable reality that no social media platform is entirely “clean,” leaving businesses and individuals to make difficult ethical calculations. As David notes, “We can’t have a pure version here, but we can certainly not contribute to it being worse.” 30:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.When Social Connection Returns to Human Scale From the chaos of the Christchurch earthquake emerges a surprising insight about technology’s proper place in our lives. Sarah Wynn-Williams’ personal story of receiving news about her sister’s safety through Facebook demonstrates how these platforms can serve genuine human needs during crises. Yet as Steve observes, the trustworthiness of crisis information has dramatically declined with the proliferation of fake content. The hosts suggest that social media works best when confined to ...
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    36 min
  • Bitter Truths and False Sweeteners: Embracing Failure and Contradiction the Healthy Way

    Bitter Truths and False Sweeteners: Embracing Failure and Contradiction the Healthy Way
    Mar 17 2025
    David Duchovny reveals why success can leave you alone on a pedestal while failure invites you into a community of shared experience. We unpack the delightful contradiction of business advice books – from bootstrapping beginners to broccoli-avoiding delegators – and why different paths might all lead to the same summit. Meanwhile, VentraIP’s ‘complimentary’ domain names and Microsoft’s Skype funeral remind us that in business, what’s presented as sweet often leaves a bitter aftertaste. Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.David Duchovny’s Blueprint for Embracing the Upside of Your Failures When most celebrities discuss their journey, they craft a narrative that conveniently drops the missteps. Not so with David Duchovny, who offers a refreshingly nuanced take on why his post-X-Files ventures into filmmaking sometimes flopped – and why that might be a good thing. As our hosts unpack Duchovny’s conversation with Adam Grant, they reveal his core insight: success isolates while failure creates connection. The discussion evolves into an exploration of Australia’s peculiar relationship with both success and failure. Unlike America’s entrepreneur-friendly “fail forward” culture, we’ve developed an environment where discussing either triumph or disaster feels equally uncomfortable. As David notes, “We’re not allowed to talk about failure and we’re not allowed to talk about success. What exactly are we meant to talk about?” The segment concludes with Duchovny’s deliciously pointed observation about Silicon Valley’s “fail fast” mantra, describing it as merely “success culture wearing failure drag” – a concept that resonated with both hosts as they reflected on how our relationship with failure shapes our capacity for authentic human connection. 14:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.The Contradictory Wisdom of Business Guides (Or: How Every Book Can Be Right) What happens when the business advice you’re receiving appears to contradict itself? Our hosts dive into this conundrum by examining the tension between Simon Squibb’s bootstrapping philosophy and Blair Enns’ “don’t eat your broccoli” approach to delegation. The first tells you to do everything yourself; the second tells you to outsource what you don’t enjoy. Rather than picking a winner, Steve and David suggest both perspectives might be simultaneously valid depending on your circumstances. “It’s like what Rabbi Brasch once told me,” Steve reflects. “There are many pathways to the top of the same mountain.” The conversation takes an elegant turn toward Richard Koch’s 80/20 principle as a possible reconciliation between these seemingly opposing views. David reframes the delegation question: “It’s not whether broccoli’s good for you or bad for you… it’s a question of if I spend time eating my broccoli, am I wasting time on something else that would be even better for me?” This philosophical dance culminates in a real-world application as Steve discusses his newly launched “Website in a Week” offering – a service that contradicts his 20-year philosophy of encouraging clients to build their own sites, yet perfectly aligns with the principle of allowing people to focus on their strengths. 21:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.The “Free” Domain Name That’s Anything But (Or: When Gifts Come With Strings) In a segment that sparked evident frustration from both hosts, Steve details how Australian web hosting company VentraIP has adopted a page from the cynical playbook of LinkedIn’s “free premium” offers. Their “complimentary” domain name – presented as appreciation for customer loyalty – automatically renews as a paid service the following year. The hosts dissect not just the questionable ethics of this “gift” but the deliberately cumbersome process required to decline it. “It is a center of confusion in the business world,” Steve notes, pointing out how small business owners regularly forward domain renewal notices to him, unsure whether they’re legitimate services or clever scams. The segment concludes with a clear warning: while not reason enough to immediately abandon VentraIP, this tactic has certainly primed our hosts to keep their eyes open for competitors who “stick to their knitting” without resorting to such manipulative marketing practices. 26:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.Microsoft’s Digital Spring Clean: The Death of Skype and Publisher In the final segment, our hosts contemplate Microsoft’s decision to discontinue Skype, exploring the unexpected emotions that surface when familiar tools disappear from ...
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    32 min
  • Fire Walk With Me: When Personal Responsibility Outshines Regulation

    Fire Walk With Me: When Personal Responsibility Outshines Regulation
    Mar 3 2025
    Rick Caruso demonstrates why planning for disaster means you might be the only building left standing when LA’s wildfires rage through – and why his private firefighter strategy offers lessons for us all. David Lynch’s legacy reminds us that creating characters people genuinely care about is the secret ingredient to making audiences lean in and stay engaged – even when the narrative deliberately avoids closure. Meta’s inbox impersonators are getting craftier with their urgent demands for “verification,” proving that digital scammers are banking on our panic response. A small child tapping alongside a street performer in Galway asks the question we all need to consider: why aren’t more of us willing to step out of our comfort zones and join the dance? Get ready to take notes. Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes 01:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.Rick Caruso’s Private Firefighting Playbook Rick Caruso, former LA Department for Water and Power commissioner, real estate mogul and philanthropist, shares a remarkable tale of foresight that left his shopping centre standing while LA burned. Steve encountered Rick’s discussion in In The Politics of Catastrophe – Waking Up Podcast #399. Drawing on lessons from previous Montecito disasters, Caruso and his team built a shopping centre with non-combustible materials, minimal venting, and a private firefighting strategy that didn’t deplete municipal resources. Steve and David unpack this approach through the lens of strategic planning, noting how the “pre-mortem” exercise (imagining future failure and working backward) overlaps with Caruso’s meticulous planning. They explore the growing necessity of personal responsibility in an era where Donald Trump and Elon Musk seemingly mock standards, asking whether we should all be holding ourselves to higher account in both business and personal life. As David notes, we’re entering a period where “if you don’t look after yourself, no one else is going to” – pointing to rising insurance costs, healthcare expenses, and other signs that systems we once relied on are faltering. Self-sufficiency, from solar panels to physical fitness, might be the new normal in weathering life’s inevitable storms. 13:30 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.David Lynch’s Guide to Character Connection Following the death of filmmaker David Lynch in January 2025, Steve and David reflect on the appointment-viewing phenomenon that was Twin Peaks and what made Lynch’s storytelling so powerful. Steve picked up on the news after hearing Tamler Summer from the Very Bad Wizards podcast, eulogise the famous director. They explore Lynch’s deliberate avoidance of narrative closure – “as soon as you get closure, it’s just an excuse to forget you saw the damn thing” – and what this means for business storytelling. The hosts connect Lynch’s character-building prowess to Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework, noting that Lynch understood what takes many marketers years to learn: audiences connect with vulnerable characters who keep trying despite uncertainty. The key insight? In your marketing, position your customer as the hero and your business as the guide – not the other way around. As David notes, “Lynch always left his central characters with some degree of vulnerability. We came to really care about the fact they were vulnerable, and it could go wrong, and they didn’t have all the answers, but they kept on trying.” They conclude that while storytelling in marketing isn’t new, Lynch reached a depth that many storytellers – and marketers – are still trying to catch up to. 21:45 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.Meta Verification Scams Get Craftier A plague of convincing scam messages is hitting Facebook business pages and Instagram accounts, purporting to be from Meta with urgent notices of policy violations. These messages, typically from accounts with blue icons featuring three people, warn of imminent account suspension or deactivation unless “verification” is completed within unreasonably short timeframes. Steve shares examples of these messages, pointing out the telltale signs they’re fake: urgency tactics (verify within 4 hours), suspicious web addresses that don’t end in meta.com, and exaggerated threats of account deletion. His preferred response to these scammers? “Thank you so much. Can you please remove my page? It’s way too much work” – a bit of fun at their expense. The hosts offer practical advice: never click suspicious links, check that any Meta-related links actually end in meta.com, and when in doubt, contact trusted sources (like Talked About Marketing for their clients) to verify legitimacy. 25:15 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting...
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    31 min