Épisodes

  • PHQP_0025 Instead of NO

    PHQP_0025 Instead of NO
    Jun 23 2025
    In PHQP_0025 Instead of NO, Jeff discusses the value of following up a "No" with a "But" in order to better support playful learning. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0025 Instead of NO Episode Notes No links for this episode. The Instead of NO Transcript Welcome to the Playvolution HQ Podcast, I'm Jeff Johnson, thanks for pushing play, I'm with the show. So I was on a walk the other day and I ran across an Easter game, kids were playing a game of dodge croc. This is, you can imagine, dodge ball using a croc shoe, you know, those really ugly shoes, instead of a ball. Nobody wanted to run home and get a ball, so somebody kicked off their shoes and they were playing with the croc. And they were using a pinkish, purplish colored croc, I think crocs of any color will work if you want to play dodge croc. But I thought this was ingenious, it goes to show how creative kids are, how versatile loose parts are, and how kids are wired to make do. We don't need a lot of fancy toys to make play happen, we just need space and an environment and interest and kids will come up with all kinds of things for the props necessary to make their play work. When I do write up the dodge ball post for the Playvolution HQ collection of classic kids games, I will make sure to include dodge croc in there as a game variation. What are we going to get into next? Well, we've got one topic for this week, and that is no but. This kind of is related to the dodge croc, right? Anybody got a ball so we can play dodge ball? No but, I do have this croc, and that's the way they move forward. I think no but is a much better option when it comes to dealing with activities kids are choosing than no, because often times for adults we get in this habit of saying no and just putting things to a complete stop when kids are doing things that we don't approve of. Now, absolutely there are times when we need kids to stop what they're doing. It's okay, I mean I'm not saying never say no to kids, what I am saying is much of the time when it comes to supervising and keeping play safe and promoting learning, we can opt for something less than no, and I think no but is a good variation there, because it's easy for no to become the default response. Along those lines, my experience is also, since I do a lot of training and talking about caregiver burnout, saying no all day, no, no you can't do that, no you can't do this, no you can't do this, I can't have you, really has an impact on our mindset, and we start taking on the negative mindset of that no, and one of the strategies for reducing burnout just a little bit for caregivers is to create an environment where you're not saying no as much, because it truly does have an impact on your mindset. Maybe that'll be a future episode. So instead of no, we can start going with no but, and that curtails the children's activity and learning, just like no does, but it offers another option, and that's where it becomes valuable. So instead of shutting down the activity completely, it offers them a way to move forward with it with slight changes. And look, this is basically redirection, right? And I think it's more thoughtful if we think about it in these terms of looking for ways to support the thing, because oftentimes just basic redirection is they redirect, the child is redirected 180 degrees from what they are already doing, and what we're talking about here is making minor changes to what they're already doing so they can keep doing some version of it. I think that's the difference between basic redirection and no but. Yes, might be impossible, impractical, or inconvenient. That just happens. There are going to be, like I said, there are going to be those times where we do absolutely have to say no to kids, and no but could be that alternative. No but provides options and choice and a little bit more power and control for the kids instead of being redirected to something that may be 180 de...
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    15 min
  • PHQP_0024 Proprioception And School Readiness

    PHQP_0024 Proprioception And School Readiness
    Jun 16 2025
    In PHQP_0024 Proprioception And School Readiness, Jeff explores proprioception, the body's ability to sense its position and movement, and its critical role in preparing young children for school. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0024 Proprioception And School Readiness Episode Notes Proprioceptive System Balanced And Barefoot | Quote 02043 The Important Role Of Kinetic Chains In Early Learning 5 Simple Ways to Support “Heavy Work” Balanced And Barefoot | Quote 02289 Balanced And Barefoot | Quote 02544 Balanced And Barefoot | Quote 02555 Heavy Work Simplified Balanced And Barefoot: How Unrestricted Outdoor Play Makes for Strong, Confident, and Capable Children The Proprioception And School Readiness Transcript Welcome to the Playvolution HQ podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson. Thanks for pushing play on with the show. So, uh, I, uh, if you listen to the show, I've been, I've been, I talked about this before. I decided I was going to learn to play the guitar. That's going to be my new scary thing. And a little bit of an update. I've started developing finger calluses. You can't see them, but I can feel the skin getting thicker on my, on my fingers because of the, uh, the pain of, of the guitar strings. And that's, that's one of the amazing things about our bodies. Our bodies are adaptive. And so after a while, it's not going to be so painful to play. But the other big thing I've found is, uh, related to the topic for the day, proprioception. I am, I was amazed at how poor my proprioception is in relation to the skills you need to learn how to play the guitar because, um, well, we'll get into proprioception in a little bit, but it's about awareness of, of your body's position in relation to other parts of your body in part. And I've got to be able to put my left index finger and my left, left middle finger, my left pinky, all in specific places. Well, my heel is tapping. Well, my right thumb is strumming in the right direction and it's, it's a lot. And, and so one of the, one of the struggles for learning something like this, especially when you're, you're old, like I am, is it literally takes rewiring the brain to build these, these new skills that, that come naturally when we're in kids. And that's why for our topic today, I wanted to get into, um, proprioception and school readiness because maybe if I would have been more proprioceptively prepared in kindergarten, I'd be a better guitar learner now. I don't know if that's true or not, but something we're thinking about. So I wanted to dig into proprioception and its relation to school readiness because, you know, we talk about school readiness in the early learning field a lot, and it's about ABCs and blocks and knowing how to write your name and, and things like that. But a big part of it is having your body physically ready to do the job of going to school. And a lot of kids are heading off to school with bodies that are, are not ready. And part of it is the way we handle programming in early learning settings. And part of it probably has to do with, uh, with other things like, uh, you know, how, how human children have never been more sedentary than they are right now in 2025. Um, and so really proprioception is, is a, is a big part about body awareness. And so let's get into a little bit of that. Um, part of it is being aware of where body parts are in relation to other body parts. Now for just walking around, your brain needs to be aware of where your left heel is and where your right toes are and where your left elbow is and where your right elbow is, and the position of your head and the position of your torso and all of this. Your body, your brain has to be aware of, of all of those things to coordinate things like walking. For me, I'm struggling with the guitar. It's, it's the, the awareness of where individual fingers are in relation to other individual fingers. And this is,
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    17 min
  • PHQP_0023 Fit For Care

    PHQP_0023 Fit For Care
    Jun 9 2025
    In episode PHQP_0023 Fit For Care, Jeff examines why early learning programs should consider adopting staff fitness standards, as well as making accommodations for staff who are unable to meet such standards when necessary. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0023 Fit For Care Episode Notes No special notes for this one. The Fit For Care Transcript Welcome to the Playvolution HQ Podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson. Thanks for pushing play on with the show. So, a little update, a couple, a handful, I don't know, maybe a dozen episodes back, I was talking about a kid playing at taking the garbage out, doing all kinds of spins and twists and flips with the garbage bag. My wife, Tash, reported the other day that she saw an adult male doing kind of the same thing. He was doing curls with the garbage bag, one hand and then the other, as he walked it out to the trash receptacle from the house. So, I like to see that it's a, at least a multi-generational activity, that we humans find ways to entertain ourselves, even with mundane chores like hauling out the trash. So, topic, the only one for this episode, is caregiver fitness standards. I think a lot of people underestimate the physical demands of working in early learning programs. Now, in the burnout work that I do, I talk a lot about the emotional labor that we do, dealing with the emotions and feelings of people that we interact with. But there's also a lot of physical labor, if we're going to do this work. There's hefting and toting of kids up and down off of changing tables, and there's moving of equipment, and there's hopefully running and chasing around with kids outside and inside, and getting our hearts pounding. And then maybe in emergency situations, there are things we need to do, and that requires a certain level of physical fitness. And I don't know any kinder way to say this, but some early learning staff are not physically fit for the job of working in early learning. They're incapable of meeting all of those physical demands, and to some extent, that's okay. This is a sensitive topic because of that, but look, accommodations and inclusion are really important around this topic. I've met over my 30-ish years working the field a number of caregivers who would fall short of the physical requirements for doing the job for one reason or another, and who are incredibly gifted in other areas of the work that I would want them not in the field. So I think for many people, accommodations can be made, and we want to include people in this profession with differing abilities. And we do need some level of fitness for probably the majority of staff in the majority of programs for a number of reasons that we'll get into. So I'm not trying to be a jerk talking about this topic, and I don't want to exclude or forbid people from working in the field because they physically can't do certain things, but I think it's something we need to discuss. Sedentary adults encourage sedentary kids for one thing. I've said it many times, we live in a world where human children have never been more sedentary than they are right now in 2025. And if we want kids to be moving more, it's probably a good idea to surround them with adults who are moving more. And so programmatically, having more physically active, physically capable, physically interested adults is probably a good idea, just from a curriculum standpoint. If we want kids to move, we need them to be around adults who can and do move. There's also a relationship here to burnout, because over the years, I've written a couple books and done a lot of speaking and thinking about burnout in this profession. And I've noticed this kind of burnout fitness spiral, and it tends to happen to people because when you work in this profession, you do that emotional labor, and you start burning out. Burnout puts blinders on you, and you get kind of this narrow focus, and you burn up a lot of emotional energy.
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    15 min
  • PHQP_0022 Reliability And Validity Testing

    PHQP_0022 Reliability And Validity Testing
    Jun 2 2025
    In PHQP 0022 Reliability And Validity Testing, Jeff reflects on the long, unstructured summer vacations of his childhood, contrasting them with today’s shorter, adult-scheduled breaks that limit children’s freedom to self-regulate and pursue their interests. Then, he critiques the lack of reliability and validity testing in early learning accreditation and quality rating programs. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0022 Reliability And Validity Testing Episode Notes No notes for this one! The Reliability And Validity Testing Transcript Welcome to the Playvolution HQ podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson. Thanks for pushing play on with the show. So, recently, coming back from Minnesota where I did a live weekend training, I had a great conversation with an Uber guy. We were about the same age and we got talking about summertime back when we were kids and going to the drive-in movies and jumping our big wheels off of things and fireflies and adults not really worrying about us and letting us play and have a good time and how that wasn't always perfect. It was often wonderful playing outside till the streetlights came on, all of that kind of stuff, and it was a nice chance to reminisce with a peer, which got me thinking about topic one for this episode of a two-topic episode. A couple weeks after that, just a couple days ago now, I run into a kid. He comes over to say hi to Gigi, my pup, when we're out on a walk and I say, hey, I hear you. Yesterday was the last day of school. He looks at me like I'm an idiot and he says, no, I have to keep going back until I'm almost an adult. He's not off of school. He's just on a short break until he's got to go back and then go back and then go back until he's almost an adult. That kind of struck me as funny because back in the day, back when me and that Uber driver were kids, summer vacations seemed to last forever. I dug into this a little bit and it turns out that total school days hasn't changed much since the 50s and maybe even earlier, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. It ends up being around 180 days of school and every state and every district's got their own thing, but that seems to be about the average across the U.S. What has changed is how those days are disbursed. We used to have a big block of time off during the summer, back in the day. It was almost from the end of May, beginning of June, to the end of August. Now it is often much, much shorter than that. The days off hasn't changed. They disperse them different because there's more days off during the school year for teacher work days and slightly longer spring breaks and those kind of things. Maybe those things are good, but what those things are mostly for is to make things more convenient for adults. Look, I get that, but what's missing is those short summer vacations do kids a disservice because we don't have the time to decompress and be away from adults and follow their own interests and have that freedom that we had back in the day. That's something that's missing because one of the troubling things about modern childhood is kids are always under the thumb of somebody else's schedule and somebody else's timeline. It's really hard to learn how to self-regulate and know your own mind and follow your own interests when somebody's always shuffling you from this activity to that activity. Longer summers would do a lot for kids. Of course, that's not going to happen. On topic two, that was kind of depressing, and this topic is going to be depressing too, if you want to take it that way. It gets in my head every once in a while. I got to think about reliability and validity testing a couple weeks ago, and I decided we needed to do an episode about it because a lot of times in early learning settings, we don't think about this. Reliability and validity testing is a thing. Accreditation programs and quality rating systems should take advantage of this thing,
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    13 min
  • PHQP_0021 Your Daily Schedule’s Too Cluttered

    PHQP_0021 Your Daily Schedule’s Too Cluttered
    May 26 2025
    PHQP 0021 Your Daily Schedule's Too Cluttered: Jeff critiques overly busy early learning program schedules, arguing they disrupt children's need for big blocks of uninterrupted, self-directed play and exploration. He highlights how frequent transitions create friction and behavior issues, offering practical advice to simplify schedules while meeting regulatory requirements. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0021 Your Daily Schedule's Too Cluttered Episode Notes The Over-Scheduled Child: Avoiding the Hyper-Parenting Trap CCBAG_1186 Daily Schedules Daily Schedules | Play Space Critiques Part 12 Bones_0024 Schedules Vs Routines Perspectives_0007 Over Scheduled Kids The Your Daily Schedule's Too Cluttered Transcript Welcome to the Playvolution HQ podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson. Thanks for tuning in on With the Show. So on the PlayvolutionHQ site, I'm working on a section of classic kids games. And one of the games I'm doing a write-up on is the game of horse. And it's a ball and basket based game. Many of you have probably played it or seen it played. And anyway, in researching this, I found video online of some dudes, adult dudes, playing a version of this game that involves shock collars. Each one of them had a dog training collar on. I mean, I've got these types of collars for both of my big dogs. And I pretty much use the vibrate and beep settings, not the shock settings. But I mean, I've probably shocked myself more than I've shocked my dogs. But anyway, all these guys have these collars on. And if you miss the shot, then the button got pushed and you got a shock. Because one of the things about games is games have consequences. And these guys kind of raise the stakes and the consequences for their game of horse. And I found it amusing, a very dude thing. I think I'm going to use a video in the article as a variation people can look at, but maybe not a recommendation. So look for that coming sometime in the future. On with the show, topic one, our only topic for this week, the daily schedule. Your daily schedule is too cluttered. Now that's kind of a blanket statement. I haven't seen your daily schedule probably. I'm talking about your program's daily schedule. And I'm making the assumption that it's too cluttered, but it probably is. If yours isn't, I'd love to see it. If yours is, I'd love to see it too. I love looking at these things. And basically where I'm coming from here is the idea that I've espoused from the beginning of the show is that young children need big blocks of uninterrupted time for self-directed play and exploration. And if they're in programs with daily schedules that are broken down into little blocks of time that aren't self-directed and aren't full of play and exploration, we are doing kids a disservice. So your schedule is probably working counter to what you want to do if what you want to do is what I've got up on the slide there. Big blocks of uninterrupted time for self-directed play and exploration. And so one place where caregivers who want to have more playful environments struggle is with their daily schedules. Because a lot of times stuff gets shoved into the schedule. Well, we'll get to that in a minute. Early learning program schedules tend towards tiny blocks of time. And that's just a fact. I've been looking at these things for 30 years now. I've got a collection of 120-plus handbooks I've collected over the last couple years that most of them have schedules in them. And I've got a couple here I'll show you in a second. They are open to close of a program full of busyness. And it doesn't lead to big blocks of uninterrupted time for child-led play and exploration. Here's one. I don't know what kind of device you're watching this on, but this is a real one I collected. 8.15 in the morning, circle time, 8.15 to 8.30, day per change, 8.30 to 9, snack, 9 to 9.30, outside, 9.30 to 10, math, exploration, 10 to 10, 10.
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    16 min
  • PHQP_0020 Schema Play Basics

    PHQP_0020 Schema Play Basics
    May 19 2025
    PHQP 0020 Schema Play Basics - Jeff explores the fundamentals of schema play, rooted in Piaget’s cognitive development theory, highlighting how children’s repeated behavior patterns, like throwing or enclosing, reflect an innate curiosity that drives learning, physical development, and sensory integration, and offers practical ways adults can support these behaviors by creating play-friendly environments with open-ended materials. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0020 Schema Play Basics Episode Notes Schema Play Theory Transforming Schema Filling And Emptying Schema Going Through Schema Back And Forth Schema Orientation Schema Enveloping Schema Transporting Schema Positioning Schema Rotation Schema Enclosing Schema Connecting Schema Scattering Schema Trajectory Schema The Schema Play Basics Transcript Welcome to Playvolution HQ Podcast, I'm Jeff Johnson. Thanks for pushing play on the show. So I've really been overjoyed, I guess is the word, happy. Pulled out of my normal stupor of disdain for life. No, that sounds too serious. No, there's been a lot of kids outside playing in the neighborhood lately. And about a year ago, there was a lot of kids outside playing in the neighborhood. And then like the three kids that apparently initiated all the outdoor play moved. And now it's back up again. I was taking the dogs out for a walk the other day and I kind of counted on our short walk through the neighborhood. We passed, I think it was like a group of 14 kids all running around playing some sort of tag game that they'd invented. And there were bikes all over the places and they're left and not stolen. And there are balls and bats out and there's kids climbing trees and building swings with found objects and all kinds of chaos. And it's delightful and it's good to see because there's so much value in that kind of outdoor play. And for a long time, I didn't see a lot of it. And I don't know if it's just a pocket of it here in my corner of the world or if it's going on other places. If you're seeing more kids outside being kids the way me and my cohort did back in the 70s and 80s, I'd love to hear about it. So let's get into other things. Topic one, only again, only one topic for this week. Schema play basics. So we're gonna kind of delve into an overview of schema play, I guess. And then in future episodes, I want to probably dig into some individual play schema and go into them in more detail with more examples and those kinds of things. So let's get started on this. So schema play theory is rooted in PSJA's cognitive development theory as a starter point. So that's where it's philosophical slash research basis is. That's where it's thought origins are, I guess. And what a play schema is, is a repeated behavior pattern in children's play. So it's something you see kids doing over and over again. Maybe exactly the same way, maybe different ways. Maybe you observe the same activity in different locations. Maybe there are different variations of the gauge in it. These are usually things children are kind of driven to repeat because they benefit from them in some way. And we can dig into that a little bit deeper. So they're driven by this internal curiosity to do these things. And that drive seems to be kind of an innate thing. Nobody teaches them this drive. They just do it. And as we get into this, you'll notice that there are some things kids just tend to be interested in at certain stages in their development. Not all kids all the time, but lots of kids lots of the time. And we'll dig into a couple of these in a minute. So there's this curiosity and it seems to be kind of inborn. I would call it, I'd describe it as an evolutionary strategy for figuring out the world. It's what a lot of schema is. A evolutionary strategy for knowing, an evolutionary strategy for figuring things out, for exploring.
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    19 min
  • PHQP_0019 Programming Consistency

    PHQP_0019 Programming Consistency
    May 12 2025
    PHQP_0019 Programming Consistency delves into the value of consistent early learning programs. Jeff outlines a six-tier hierarchy—vision, mission, philosophy, policies, procedures, and practices—to ensure clarity and alignment for staff, kids, and parents. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0019 Programming Consistency Episode Notes The 6-Tier Programming Consistency Hierarchy Mission Statement Vision Statement 3 Valuable Tips For Writing A Mission Statement Compose A Sensational Philosophy Statement | 4 Tips The Programming Consistency Transcript Welcome to the Playvolution HQ podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson. Thanks for pushing play on the show. So, I've got a new scary thing I've started working on. I did the 50 mile walk and now I needed something new so I've decided I'm gonna learn guitar. Now, I have no sense of rhythm. I have no musical sense. I have very, it appears, uncoordinated fingers but I decided this would be a great old guy thing. I can practice a little bit at a time. It's gonna build my proprioception. It's apparently good for the old brain to learn new habits like this and it's gonna be fun. So, stay tuned for updates on my progression. I ordered the car, I can barely say guitar, ordered the guitar the other day. It arrived, the amp hasn't shown up yet. It's a nice little Squier Stratocaster. I've decided, I've made sure Tasha, my wife, knows already that I'm not gonna get real good at playing this guitar because I don't wanna have to buy leather pants and deal with groupies and have a heroin addiction. But I should learn to play a song or two. It's gonna be fun. So, let's move on into things. Topic one, the one and only topic for this week, program consistency. So, let's dig into it. I meet a lot of confused caregivers. So, picture somebody working in a toddler room with a co-worker, maybe they're the lead teacher, maybe they're not and they wanna make a change but they don't have their co-worker on board and so they struggle or they struggle because things are done one way in the toddler room and a different way in the preschool room and then a third way in the school age room. And not just age-based differences but really philosophical differences for the way kids are dealt with. Or maybe somebody is a member of a professional organization that says one thing in their shiny, glossy, three-fold handout and does other things in practice. It's really hard to know where you stand in a lot of these situations. And one thing having a consistent program, one thing program consistency does is it lets everybody know where they stand and that can be valuable. So, what am I talking about? I'm talking about continuity and predictability for programs. And we're gonna get into this in a minute but ideally, an early learning program and we'll focus on child serving programs, programs providing child care right now. These programs want to be consistent. They want to be predictable. They want parents to have a unified vision of what their philosophy and mission is because then everybody's on the same page. Everybody is trying to work towards the same thing. Everybody knows what they're supposed to be doing. But when programs lack that, when one room does things one way because that's the way Ms. Kim has done things for 35 years and somebody new comes into the classroom next door and wants to try things differently and that's okay too because hey, we got people to show up for the job so just having warm bodies here might be enough. It can get really confusing for kids, parents, and staff. And so continuity and predictability come from having that program consistency that I'm talking about. So here, a little over a year ago, I put together a six-tier hierarchy of I think about what we need structurally in programs to have this consistency. So let's kind of go through those. So starting out, we got a vision, a vision statement.
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    15 min
  • PHQP_0018 More Hazard Mitigation

    PHQP_0018 More Hazard Mitigation
    May 5 2025
    In PHQP_0018 More Hazard Mitigation, Jeff draws on his recent 50-mile walk to explore hazard mitigation, sharing practical strategies for reducing unseen dangers to make risky activities safer for children and educators. Episode Video Watch Now: PHQP_0018 More Hazard Mitigation Episode Notes PHQP_0015 Hazard Mitigation PHQP_0004 Learning Is Risky 5 Hazard Mitigation Strategies Understanding Danger, Hazard, And Risk Hazard The More Hazard Mitigation Transcript Welcome to the Playvolution HQ podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson. Thanks for pushing Play on with the show. So I'm just back from another road trip out there doing live in-person early learning professional development training. Was up in Minnesota, Rochester, Minnesota, talking to family child care providers. Great group. I've been with them before. And Minnesota, back in the days when I was just getting started as a trainer, was really supportive of that. And so I saw some faces that I've known for a long time and some wonderful, wonderful early learning professionals, which was great. I love doing stuff online, but getting out there and seeing people in person, especially from the olden days, was good. So on to this episode, we're talking about hazard mitigation some more. Now, we've talked about it in the past. I wanted to spend this episode going over specifically hazard mitigation in relation to the 50 mile walk I did a few weeks back. Because I think it's an example of the kind of the thought process that we can use when we mitigate hazards. When we're considering doing scary things, like I talked about last episode, in our own lives or in supporting children and doing their scary thing and taking risks. And so to recap a little bit, a danger is anything that could cause harm. Lots of dangers out there. A hazard is a danger that is not readily seen or predicted. And so in early learning settings, one of our primary jobs is hazard mitigation. We're trying to see the things that could cause harm to children that they're not going to anticipate or predict readily. And then a risk is a choice. It's a choice to do a thing or not to do it based on your experience, based on your knowledge. And it's something that could or that may or may not cause harm. So risks are choices. And we don't need to worry about risks in our early learning settings as much as we need to worry or think about hazard mitigation. And so you can think of hazard mitigation as making the scary things less scary. So again, it comes up for playgrounds, for example. Good hazard mitigation means that before kids head out to the outdoor play space, that somebody does a playground check. They make sure that there's not cat poop in the sandbox and there's not broken glass in the resilient surfacing under the slide. And that the fence is secure so that there's a gate open so the two-year-olds don't wander off. And those kind of things, you know, making sure the swing chains are bolted tight and that the slide isn't too wobbly. All of those kind of things are making the playground less dangerous for the little kids that are going to be out there playing and exploring. So hazard mitigation, making scary things less scary. Now, with my walk, one of the first things I had to consider was the when, the timing of it. I couldn't do it, I lived down on the Gulf Coast. I couldn't do it in July or August because the heat and humidity would kill me, even in the evenings. There's a lot of evenings, nights in the summer when it only gets down in the 80s and it's like 90% humidity. So I needed to do it, if I was going to do it, I needed to do it before the beginning of May, middle of May. And otherwise it was going to have to get put off until October, September, October, November. And so the scheduling was important, but also when in the day I did it. Because the sun can kick your butt down here. And so my plan to mitigate hazards that were kind of...
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    16 min