Scott trades his usual host chair for the guest seat to share what happened during five weeks on the Camino de Santiago, with his son Ryan joining him for the final 300 kilometers. What looked on paper like manageable 15-to-20-mile days became a lesson in cumulative fatigue, infected blisters, carrying a pack, and doing it all again the next morning. Along the way, Scott discovered something unexpected: weeks of slow, steady walking left him remarkably fit, dropping his resting heart rate by 10 beats and making his first run home feel almost effortless. But the real story became the people, from more than 100 meaningful encounters to intimate conversations with complete strangers and friendships that crossed languages and cultures. Scott and Ryan reflect on the Camino’s central lesson that everyone walks their own path, and how that idea challenged Scott to trade judgment for a little more grace. The Camino ultimately became something bigger than a 500-mile adventure, showing how endurance fitness can take us far beyond races and into experiences that may actually change how we live.

EPISODE SPONSORS
Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.
If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!
Get 20% off with code TRN20

09:50 | What Do You Carry for 500 Miles?
From a sub-20-pound pack to albergues, hand-washed clothes, earplugs, eye masks, and rain gear, Scott explains what daily life on the Camino actually looks like.

23:23 | The People Become the Story
Scott describes more than 100 meaningful encounters and how strangers from around the world quickly moved past small talk into remarkably personal conversations.

43:43 | Ryan Joins the Camino
Ryan arrives for the final 300 kilometers, bringing a fresh perspective, some early IT-band trouble, and an unforgettable stretch of father-son time.

48:16 | Harder Than an Ultrarunner Expected
Fifteen to 20 miles sounds manageable until it becomes roughly 100 miles a week, every week, with a pack and no traditional recovery days.

51:29 | No Running, Better Fitness?
After five weeks of walking, Scott returns home noticeably fitter, runs his usual loop about a minute per mile faster, and reports a 10-beat drop in resting heart rate.

58:40 | The Lesson of the Empty Cup
Scott and Ryan unpack the deeper lessons of the Camino: doing hard things, giving people more grace, letting others find their own path, and realizing that endurance adventures don’t need a bib or a finish-line clock to matter.

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In this new Aging As An Athlete episode wtih Krissy Moehl, Coach Kirk Keller has been running since 1974, and nearly six decades later, he’s still training, racing, coaching, and figuring things out. He joins The Nation to talk about one of the hardest lessons for aging athletes: the training that worked years ago may not be the training your body needs today. The conversation covers consistency, recovery, RPE, mental training, durability, and the danger of comparing today’s pace to an earlier version of yourself. Kirk also shares a fresh lesson from the Bridger Ridge Run, where tired legs forced him to reconsider his own recovery and training load, proving that even an experienced coach still has to keep rewriting the playbook. Krissy adds her perspective on how experience, durability, life stress, and smarter recovery have changed her approach to training in her 40s. The bigger message is encouraging: aging changes the athlete, but it can also bring wisdom, perspective, problem-solving skills, and a deeper appreciation for simply being out there.

LINKS:

• Kirk Keller Coaching
• Krissy Moehl Coaching and Races

EPISODE SPONSORS
Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.
If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

RunMotion Coach: Whether you’re training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.

07:35 – Can We Still Get Faster as We Age?
The group examines age, previous training history, accumulated mileage, and why personal bests mean something different depending on when someone began running.

12:58 – Consistency, Durability, and Training After 40
Kirk identifies consistency as a major predictor of success and explains why older athletes may need a flatter, more patient approach to building toward big goals.

29:58 – The Biggest Mistake Aging Athletes Make
Kirk argues that denying the effects of age can hold runners back, while accepting change creates room to adjust and keep doing meaningful things on the trail.

34:54 – Why RPE Becomes More Valuable With Age
They discuss using perceived effort instead of chasing old splits, giving runners a more useful way to measure effort across changing terrain and changing bodies.

37:28 – Training the Aging Runner’s Brain
Kirk explains why mental skills remain trainable and how runners can recognize negative thoughts, verbalize them, and replace them during difficult moments.

43:38 – A Coach Learns His Own Recovery Lesson
After struggling early at the Bridger Ridge Run, Kirk realizes he had stacked hard training too closely together and needs to rethink recovery at age 67. The conversation expands into durability, wisdom, changing expectations, and the value of continually experimenting with training as we age.

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Matt Fitzgerald returns to Trail Runner Nation to talk about his deeply personal book Dying to Run: An Athlete’s Quest for One More Finish and the long COVID diagnosis that transformed his life as a runner. After more than three years without running, Matt signed up for a 100K desert ultra, Javalina Hundred, despite believing he had only about a 10 percent chance of even making it to the start line. The conversation explores how he cautiously rebuilt enough fitness to attempt the race, but the bigger story is how he redefined success from achieving a result to refusing to let his disease decide who he could be. Matt talks candidly about running as identity, community, addiction, and something that left a hole nothing else could completely fill when it disappeared. He also explains how Stoicism helped him accept reality without surrendering to it, and how suffering became something he could use rather than simply something he had to escape. Most powerfully, Matt says he would make the same choices again, even knowing long COVID was waiting for him, because removing the hardship would also remove the person he became through it.

LINKS
Dream Run Camp

EPISODE SPONSORS
Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.
If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

05:14 – Living With Long COVID
Matt describes the neurological symptoms, post-exertional crashes, loss of function, and the realization that “recovery” may never mean returning to his old body.

09:32 – Training With a 10% Chance of Starting
Forty pounds above his former racing weight and badly deconditioned, Matt begins with walking and tries to carefully build just enough fitness without triggering another major setback.

19:22 – The Voices That Tell Us to Stop
The conversation turns to suffering, pride, competitiveness, and the surprising realization that Matt’s biggest struggle wasn't quitting, but accepting that he could no longer perform like the athlete he once was.

23:25 – When Running Becomes Your Identity
Matt wrestles with an uncomfortable question: what happens when running isn't simply something you do, but a central piece of who you are?

28:03 – Stoicism, Suffering and Redefining Success
Matt explains how Stoic ideas helped him face reality without self-pity and redefine success around how he responded to circumstances rather than what he accomplished.

47:12 – Who Are You Without the Circus?
Matt reflects on a lifetime of achievement, his changing definition of happiness, Dream Run Camp, and why he would still choose the path that led to long COVID because of what the experience ultimately taught him.

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Caffeine is one of the most researched performance aids in sport, but Dr. Neil Clarke says its biggest misconception is that it works the same way for everyone. The research strongly supports caffeine for endurance performance, yet the right dose, timing, and delivery method can vary dramatically from one runner to another. Clarke explains how caffeine can reduce perceived effort and pain, increase motivation, and potentially help athletes sustain performance longer. The conversation covers coffee versus pills, gels and gum, caffeine during ultras, sleep, withdrawal, and why cutting caffeine before a race may not provide the boost many runners expect. For trail and ultrarunners, the most useful takeaway is surprisingly simple: start with a low dose, test it in training, and look for the smallest amount that improves performance without creating side effects.

LINKS

• Dr. Neil Clarke LinkedIn
• Researchgate
• BCU Research Profile

EPISODE SPONSORS
Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.
If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

Timestamps

01:01 | The Biggest Caffeine Myth
Dr. Neil Clarke explains why caffeine doesn't work the same way for every athlete and why runners need to treat themselves as an experiment of one.

08:33 | Finding the Right Dose
The research points toward general dosing guidelines, but genetics, sensitivity, training status, and side effects can dramatically change what works for an individual runner.

10:13 | Coffee, Pills, Gels or Gum?
Neil compares common caffeine sources and explains why delivery method can affect how quickly runners feel the benefits.

20:17 | Should You Quit Caffeine Before a Race?
The popular strategy of reducing caffeine before race day gets challenged, including the potential downside of withdrawal symptoms.

28:17 | How Caffeine Actually Improves Performance
Caffeine can affect motivation, pain perception and perceived effort, helping explain why hard running may feel more manageable.

32:29 | Using Caffeine During an Ultra
For a 50K or longer event, Neil discusses starting doses, mid-race top-ups, course timing, and why runners need to test their strategy before race day.

48:26 | Build Your Own Caffeine Strategy
Neil finishes with a practical approach: start low, gradually experiment, and find the smallest dose that produces a benefit without unwanted side effects.

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For much of her career, Ellie Greenwood measured herself against the best runners in the world, but her relationship with running has evolved toward something less measurable and, in some ways, more meaningful. She talks with Don and Scott about why racing can gradually shift from exciting to stressful, and why stepping away from competition doesn't mean stepping away from being a serious runner. The conversation explores how personal projects, peak bagging, FKTs, mileage or vertical challenges, and even running every street in your hometown can provide the same motivation that once came from a race on the calendar. Ellie also tackles an important question for aging athletes: what happens when working harder no longer produces the performances it once did, and can changing the goal help preserve our love of running? Along the way, they share adventure ideas ranging from Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim and running a favorite race course unofficially to travel running and some wonderfully ridiculous challenges involving ironing boards and whole chickens. Ultimately, Ellie makes the case that a bib is only one way to create purpose, and the best running goal may simply be the one that keeps you curious, moving, and excited about what's around the next corner. Hire Ellie as a coach at SharmanUltra

EPISODE SPONSORS
Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.
If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

07:15 | Does Adventure Need Competition?
The group considers how personal challenges can provide difficulty and purpose without turning every run into another contest.

11:00 | Training Without a Race on the Calendar
Ellie shares how she coaches runners toward adventure, fitness, skills, and personal goals even when there's no finish line waiting for them.

22:40 | Are You Still a Trail Runner Without a Bib?
Scott raises the identity question at the heart of the episode, and Ellie explains why racing should never define who gets to call themselves a trail runner.

27:29 | How Long Are Our Best Running Years?
A discussion of the "Sawchuk Seven" leads to aging, longevity, smart training, burnout, and what happens when improvement becomes harder to find.

37:03 | Adventure Ideas You Can Actually Try
From running every street in your town to exploring unfamiliar trails, Ellie, Don, and Scott start building a menu of adventures that don't require an entry fee.

42:34 | Rim-to-Rim, Foil Buckles and Running the World
The conversation expands into Grand Canyon crossings, unofficial Western States adventures, delightfully strange challenges, and using running as a way to experience new places.

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Hydration can make or break a long run, but there isn't a universal formula that works for everyone. Kramer Ammons shares how he tests everything from sweat rate and hydration timing to where runners carry their water, explaining why the most efficient solution isn't always the most obvious. The conversation explores handheld bottles, hydration belts, vests, bladders, and why convenience often matters just as much as laboratory efficiency. Don and Scott add decades of racing experience, emphasizing that successful runners solve problems early instead of waiting until dehydration, stomach issues, or fatigue force them to slow down. The discussion also covers pre-hydration, electrolytes, carb drinks, aid station strategy, and how listening to your body is often more valuable than blindly following generic hydration guidelines. The biggest takeaway is that great hydration isn't about copying someone else's plan. It's about experimenting until you discover what consistently works for you.

Links:

• Kramer's "how to carry water" video
• Kramer's company 55Miles

RunMotion Coach: Whether you’re training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.

04:30 | The Best Way to Carry Water
Kramer explains the research behind handheld bottles, hydration belts, vests, and why carrying weight near your center of mass can improve efficiency.

12:30 | Find Your Personal Sweat Rate
Learn a simple sweat rate test and why copying someone else's hydration plan rarely works.

18:00 | Pre-Hydration Before You Start
The conversation covers electrolytes, hydration loading, coffee, and preparing before the first mile instead of trying to catch up later.

24:30 | Choosing the Right Hydration System
The pros and cons of handheld bottles, running belts, front flasks, hydration bladders, and when each option makes the most sense.

45:30 | Water, Electrolytes, and Carbs
The hosts discuss balancing plain water with sports drinks, avoiding stomach issues, and fueling longer races more effectively.

49:00 | The Best Runners Solve Problems Early
One of the episode's biggest lessons: recognize small problems before they become race-ending mistakes, and leave a little in reserve so you can finish strong.

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Matt Lambert has become one of the quiet legends of the Auburn trail community, not because of race results, but because of the joy, generosity, and gratitude he brings to every run. Although he's a seven-time Western States finisher, Matt rarely talks about racing. Instead, he shares how growing up on the Western States Trail taught him that running is about adventure, friendship, and discovering the "pharmacy in your head," where movement naturally brings peace, perspective, and emotional healing. The conversation explores how our relationship with the trail evolves over time, why Matt intentionally stepped away from racing before it stopped bringing him joy, and how balancing running with other activities has allowed him to stay healthy for decades. Along the way, Don, Scott, and Matt reflect on why trail running creates deeper friendships than almost any other activity and how time on the trail often provides clarity that's difficult to find anywhere else. It's an inspiring reminder that the greatest reward isn't another buckle. It's becoming the kind of person who still can't wait to head into the woods after forty years.

EPISODE SPONSORS
Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.
If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

ALTRA: With the classic Altra Fit, you set the pace. Altra running shoes are designed with room for your toes so they can actually spread out - for a natural fit. This gives you comfort, balance, and strength on and off the trail. Better balance and stability for our toes mean more comfort – on mile 5, 50, or 100.
Learn more about Altra Fit. Feel the Altra Difference and use code TRN10 for 10% off your first order at checkout at altrarunning.com/TRN. Stay Out There with Altra.

RunMotion Coach: Whether you’re training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.

09:30 | Adventure, Friendship, and Growing Up on the Trails
Matt shares how exploring the Auburn canyons as a kid and meeting influential mentors shaped his lifelong love of trail running.

20:40 | The "Pharmacy in Your Head"
Matt explains why running became his healthiest source of joy and why nature has always been his most powerful medicine.

30:00 | The Trail as a Place of Healing
The conversation turns to mental health, finding perspective, and why a run has always been Matt's path back from life's hardest moments.

41:15 | Why Longevity Beats Mileage
Drawing from decades as chiropractors, Matt and Don discuss avoiding overtraining, embracing cross training, and staying healthy enough to enjoy the trails for life.

50:00 | Knowing When to Let Racing Go
Matt reflects on finishing Western States seven times, recognizing when the suffering outweighed the joy, and redefining his relationship with running.

1:03:00 | What Really Matters After Decades on the Trail
Scott shares how Matt influenced his own evolution as a runner, leading to a heartfelt conversation about purpose, perspective, and loving the trail long after racing fades.

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