Greetings friends.

By now you have likely heard about, if not already listened to, Aubrey Marcus’ podcast “A New Pattern for Sacred Relationship.”

If you haven’t I would recommend at least check out the first 30 minutes.

Last weekend I listened to the whole thing, all 2.5 hours. I've also read and watched a number of responses to it (and there are many).

Some folks call him a "false king" who is not a "real man". Others say the women (his wife and their lover) are being manipulated and have lost their own inner compass.

Marc Gafni, their mentor (also featured on the podcast) calls them "evolutionary lovers in a field of erotic mystics" ... or something.

It seems to have hit the cultural zeitgeist on sex, relationships, monogamy/polyamory, spiritual bypassing, divine union, cults, psychedelics, all of it.

Just that alone has been fascinating to witness.

A few days ago I posted an initial response on my Facebook.

I also sent the episode to my friend and collaborator Deus Fortier, and he responded with is take here.

I felt inspired to jump on a call today and record an emergent conversation between us. Enjoy!

As named, you can stream my film The Village of Lovers.

And check out Deus and I’s upcoming men’s offerings here:

* Awaking the Wild Erotic (In-Person)

* The Deep Masculine (Online)

SHOW NOTES

* 00:00 – Opening and framing: why this conversation matters now

* 00:50 – Who is Aubrey Marcus? Context on his influence and subcultural position

* 02:45 – Summary of the podcast episode: divine union, polyamory, and the “radical monogamy” claim

* 06:50 – The Egypt “download”: Aubrey’s call to impregnate both women

* 08:00 – Mark Gafni’s role as spiritual mentor and the atmosphere of unquestioned affirmation

* 10:30 – Deus shares his initial unease and what made the episode feel “off”

* 13:30 – The concept of krivda: when truth is wrapped in distortion

* 17:00 – Power dynamics, spiritual bypass, and concerns about lack of transparency

* 22:00 – Reflections on biological imperative and cultural conditioning around monogamy

* 31:00 – Lessons from Tamara: embedment and forum as collective relational technologies

* 40:00 – The danger of personal downloads without communal discernment

* 44:00 – Deus’s personal journey of erotic healing, trauma, and moving at the speed of trust

* 50:00 – How to offer better relational support to each other