🎧 This episode of PCC Local Time is part of the APMM Series, featuring conversations with Pennsylvania’s municipal managers and leaders about the evolving practice of local government.

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In this episode of the APMM Series, produced in partnership with PCC Local Time, Nancy J. Hess and Dr. Martin Carcasson explore how local government leaders can shift from problem-solvers to systems builders. Together, they trace how small shifts in process — better questions, framing, and facilitation — can profoundly affect trust and decision-making in communities.

Dr. Martin Carcasson is a professor of Communication Studies at Colorado State University and the founding director of the Center for Public Deliberation (CPD) — a university-community partnership that helps local governments, school districts, and civic organizations improve how they talk about complex public issues.

Martin’s work draws from communication theory, social psychology, and systems thinking to design better public conversations about “wicked problems” — the issues that have no simple or permanent solutions.

He has collaborated extensively with the Kettering Foundation, the National Civic League, and the International City/County Management Association (ICMA), where he’s trained city managers and superintendents to act as deliberative systems leaders.

In his words:

“If city managers see themselves as systems leaders — deliberative systems leaders — their job is to get a sense of how this system works, and then figure out how to intervene in this system to improve it.”

Martin distinguishes debate, deliberation, and dialogue.

A live example of tough conversations and what universities can learn.

Nancy frames the skepticism many leaders have: “Do we really need all these meetings?”

Martin connects it to wicked problems and shared goals

Why we resist nuance — and how public processes often make this worse.

Surveys, individual conversations, Google Forms, and anonymous responses.

Hosts Dave Pribulka, Eden Ratliff, and Brandon Ford, are joined by Nancy Hess for a candid talk about what real change management looks like in local government. They explore how trust, timing, and human connection shape change — from labor negotiations to leadership teams to community-driven expectations.

A double header this week… be sure to check out the chat for this week’s show!

Subscribe to MuniSquare.Substack.com where you can find Generation on the Rise and PCC Local Time podcast episodes along with lots of other local government content!

02:00 – 10:00 - What change management really looks like: buy-in, communication, and shifting expectations.

10:00 – 18:00 - Real-world examples: labor negotiations, labor dynamics, and the conditions that make change possible.

18:00 – 25:00 - External forces: AI, community pressure, and unexpected participation.

25:00 – 33:00 - Pacing and leadership: slowing down on purpose, avoiding rushed decisions, emotional intelligence.

33:00 – 42:00 - Trust, vulnerability, and the “blockbuster questions” that unlock better decisions.

42:00 – 44:00 - Wrap-up: reflections and close.

Fresh from the ICMA Conference in Tampa, the Generation on the Rise crew dives into how to draw the line between leadership and politics. Eden reflects on his ICMA session about rebuilding trust after a $3.2 million fraud case, while Dave and Brandon unpack what it means to stay apolitical and human in a world where expectations sometimes conflict with professional ethics. From the emotional side of management to candid talk about boards, boundaries, and values, this episode captures the nuance and humor of a profession in flux. Join hosts: Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, Eden Ratliff.

Check out more content like this and PCC Local Time at MuniSquare@Substack.com

🎧 This episode of PCC Local Time is part of the APMM Series, featuring conversations with Pennsylvania’s municipal managers and leaders about the evolving practice of local government.

In this episode on Sustainability, host Nancy Hess talks with three guests who are redefining what local sustainability looks like on the ground:

• Sara Gibson, Borough Manager, Camp Hill Borough, creator of Stormfest
• Bailey Rocco, Sustainability Coordinator, Pennsylvania Municipal League
• Kate Robeson Grubb, Sustainability Specialist, Solebury Township, and Penn State Distinguished Alumni Award recipient

They share how communities are translating mandates into meaningful local action—from stormwater festivals and inter-municipal cooperation to new sustainability certification programs and community engagement efforts.

SHOWNOTES:

00:00 – 02:00 | Introduction

Nancy opens with reflections on the meaning of sustainability and how local governments bring it to life.

Introduction of guests: Sara Gibson, Bailey Rocco, and Kate Robeson Grubb.

02:00 – 22:00 | Sara Gibson – From Compliance to Community: The Story of Stormfest

• Origins of Stormfest and the MS4 stormwater permit requirements
• Turning federal compliance into a community celebration
• Building partnerships among watershed groups, boroughs, and volunteers
• Educating elected officials and residents about stormwater systems
• “We all live downstream” — understanding local impact and interconnectivity
• Reflection on sustainability as intergovernmental collaboration and community awareness

23:00 – 45:00 | Bailey Rocco – Measuring What Matters: The Sustainable PA Program

• Bailey’s path from social work to sustainability
• How Sustainable PA helps municipalities benchmark and communicate their sustainability efforts
• Certification levels: Bronze through Platinum
• Challenges for small municipalities and the importance of partnerships with universities
• Regional collaboration and shared learning among municipalities
• Transparency, resident trust, and the power of visibility
• Future directions: energy use, inclusion tracking, and young professionals entering the field

46:00 – 1:11:00 | Kate Robeson Grubb – Building the Future Locally

• Kate’s journey into sustainability and local government
• Solebury Township’s Energy Transition Plan and Ready for 100 goals
• Partnerships with the Environmental Advisory Council and community volunteers
• Challenges: funding large projects and public education
• The link between sustainability and equity (affordable housing, inclusivity)
• Long-term planning vs. short-term wins (solar installations, single-use plastic ordinances)
• Clarifying misconceptions about sustainability and building local resilience
• Closing reflections: “Resilient communities outlast instability.”

1:11:00 – 1:12:00 | Closing

PCC Local Time is pleased to share another episode of a new podcast series, Generation on the Rise, a great companion piece to the content we post here and something we think you are all going to like.

In this podcast series, local government's next generation sits down to talk about what's changing, what's hard, and why we believe it's worth doing. Join hosts: Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, Eden Ratliff, and Executive Producer Nancy J. Hess as they find the new normal — not the one we’re used to, but the one we are here to create.

Welcome to Generation on the Rise!

Be sure to follow this podcast at MuniSquare

SHOW NOTES:

00:00 – Warm-up: Tampa and Leaf Blowers

02:30 – The “Middletown Budget Roadshow”

06:00 – Introducing the Topic: Networking & Mentorship

08:00 – The Brandon Factor

09:00 – Why Networking Matters

14:00 – The Golf Myth

17:00 – Bad Advice from Mentors

23:00 – The Shadow Side of Mentorship

28:00 – When to Leave the Nest

33:00 – The Manager–Assistant Dynamic

35:00 – Bulls in the China Shop

38:00 – Competing for the Same Job

41:00 – The Unwritten Map

44:00 – How to Actually Network

47:00 – Networking as an Introvert

50:00 – Following Up

55:00 – The Value of Small Conferences

58:00 – Closing Thoughts

PCC Local Time is pleased to share the the first episode of a new podcast series, Generation on the Rise, a great companion piece to the content we post here and something we think you are all going to like.

In this podcast series, local government's next generation sits down to talk about what's changing, what's hard, and why we believe it's worth doing. Join hosts: Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, Eden Ratliff, and Executive Producer Nancy J. Hess as they find the new normal — not the one we’re used to, but the one we are here to create.

Welcome to Generation on the Rise!

Be sure to follow this podcast at MuniSquare

02:00 – Introductions

Dave introduces Generation on the Rise and hands the mic to each co-host.

• Eden describes his journey from Charlottesville back to Pennsylvania.
• Brandon introduces Lower Merion’s size and scope — “large and in charge.”
• Dave offers his own winding path through Ferguson, Susquehanna, and Bellefonte.
• Nancy explains MuniSquare’s purpose and her role as executive producer.

07:00 – Why We’re Doing This

Brandon explains that these conversations grew out of years of late-night conference chats. Eden adds that this podcast is simply a continuation of those friendships — but shared with others who need to hear it.

09:00 – Finding Purpose in Local Government

Eden reflects on his township’s “why” exercise and describes helping staff reconnect to purpose. “I care about people — the ones who live, work, and play in our community.”

11:00 – A New Generation’s Voice

Brandon speaks about reaching students and newcomers to the field. “Existing podcasts are mostly hosted by people already at the top of their careers. We want something real and relatable.”

14:30 – Nontraditional Paths

Brandon shares how he switched careers from teaching to management, encouraged by his wife and a Villanova MPA program. Eden and Dave discuss how few of them planned to become managers — “We all owe something to serendipity.”

18:00 – Learning from Mentors

Brandon gives credit to mentors like Ernie McNeely and Crandall Jones, calling them “deep puddles” of wisdom. Dave riffs on that: “We stand on the shoulders of giants — or at least knee-deep puddles.”

22:00 – The Gap Between School and Reality

Nancy observes that an MPA doesn’t teach how to be a manager — “You learn that in the trenches.” The group discusses what academia misses about local government.

24:00 – Change and Sacred Cows

Dave and Nancy recall their first encounter when Dave challenged a speaker’s generalizations about millennials. Eden expands with his story of uncovering municipal fraud and rebuilding trust — “When there’s massive fraud, there are no sacred cows.”

28:00 – Lessons in Reinvention

The group reflects on how the profession has evolved: new technologies, new expectations, and a new kind of leader — one who blends professionalism with authenticity.

30:00 – Closing Thoughts

Dave sums it up: “If we’ve seen farther, it’s because we’ve stood on the shoulders of giants — and maybe leaned on each other along the way.”

In this episode of PCC Local Time, produced in collaboration with the Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management (APMM), host Nancy Hess explores the evolving relationship between universities and their surrounding communities — the so-called “Town Gown” connection.

Our guests — borough managers from three Pennsylvania university towns — reflect on how they navigate both the tension and potential that arise when generations, lifestyles, and values intersect.

From housing and community safety to student engagement and communication, they share real-world stories about how small towns are cultivating vibrant, intergenerational communities where students, residents, and local leaders learn to see each other as partners.

Nicole Sipos — Borough Manager, Indiana Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Indiana University of Pennsylvania)

• A proud graduate of Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP), she holds a degree in Business and has dedicated over two decades to public service within her hometown. Nichole was appointed Borough Manager in January 2023. She oversees a $12 million annual budget and leads strategic initiatives to support community development, infrastructure, and intergovernmental collaboration.
• A lifelong resident of Indiana Borough and a strong advocate for the region, Nichole’s deep ties to both the community and IUP have been instrumental in fostering strong partnerships and transparent communication. One of her most notable recent accomplishments includes managing a $4.1 million renovation of the Borough’s Municipal Building.

Rebecca DeSantis Randall — Borough Manager, Millersville Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Millersville University)

• Rebecca graduated from Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland, earning a bachelor’s degree in international studies. She went on to receive her Master of Public Administration (MPA) degree from American University in Washington DC. She began her public service career with the International City/County Management Association (ICMA) on both the communications team and then on the career and equity advancement team as a program manager. Following ICMA, Rebecca transitioned to the City of Frederick, Maryland to serve as the City’s first Manager of Equity and Inclusion and a member of the Mayor’s Executive Leadership Team. Currently, Rebecca serves at the Borough Manager in Millersville Borough, PA, managing a community of 8,000 residents.

Jessica Whitley — Assistant to the Borough Manager, State College, Pennsylvania (Home of Pennsylvania State University)

• Jess is a public administrative professional with interest in program design, community engagement, youth advocacy and arts & culture, she is currently serving as the assistant to the Borough Manager in State College, Pennsylvania. Jess holds a 'Bachelor of Fine Arts' and a 'Master of Public Administration' from Syracuse University. A proud member of ICMA since 2022, Jess was a recipient of the prestigious Tranter Leong Fellowship in 2024 and began her journey at the Borough as a Local Government Management Fellow. Jess remains an active member of the SheLeadsGov Committee and the LGMF Alumni Committee. Grateful for the opportunities that have shaped her career, Jess remains deeply committed to serving the public and positively impact others.

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00:00 – Introduction: The

In the first MuniSquare Book

discussioin Podcast, colleagues dive into Paul Bloom’s provocative book Against Empathy. Bloom argues that emotional empathy can mislead us, create bias, and open us to manipulation. Instead, he proposes cultivating rational compassion.

Our panel wrestles with the book’s claims—exploring empathy’s role in public service, the ethics of neutrality, manipulation of emotions in politics, and whether empathy can help us navigate today’s polarized climate.

Dr. Tom Bryer is Pegasus professor in the School of Public Administration at the University of Central Florida,

Dr. Mike Rowe is Senior Lecturer in Public Sector Management at University of Liverpool, UK

Matt Candland is manager of South Boston, Virginia

Dr. Mandie Cantlin is manager at East Bradford Township, Pennsylvania

• [00:00] Introduction
• Overview of Paul Bloom’s book and the central question: is empathy always good, or can it lead us astray?
• [00:03] Tom’s Opening Challenge
• Emotional empathy vs. cognitive empathy; empathy’s unintended consequences in society
• [00:05] Matt’s Critique
• The “degree of empathy” and the need for moral grounding; empathy tethered to worldviews
• [00:06] Mike’s Perspective
• Empathy doesn’t always lead to action; questioning the head/heart divide
• [00:10] Mandie on Public vs. Private Roles
• How empathy differs when acting as an individual versus as a public servant
• [00:14] Politics, Torture, and the War on Terror
• Examples of how empathy is tethered and manipulated in high-stakes decision making
• [00:17] Manipulation of Emotions
• Willie Horton case, political campaigns, and the spotlight effect in policymaking
• [00:21] Empathy, Charity, and Bias
• Fundraising appeals and the effectiveness (and risks) of emotional storytelling
• [00:27] History as a Lens
• Carlisle Indian School as an example of empathy tethered to destructive cultural values
• [00:31] Rationality vs. Emotionality
• Debating whether reason and empathy can truly be separated
• [00:32] Empathy in Leadership
• Emotional intelligence, authenticity, and shifting trends in public leadership
• [00:33] Political Violence and Empathy
• Reflections on the shooting of Charlie Kirk, empathy’s role in both violence and reconciliation
• [00:39] Closing Reflections
• Final verdicts: qualified support for empathy but with cautions on its limits