In this episode, Julien Devaureix speaks with Nora Bateson, filmmaker, writer, and president of theInternational Bateson Institute. Together they explore how to navigate today’s complex world through systems thinking, relational approaches, and Nora’s concept of warm data. Drawing from her book Combining, Nora shares why solutions can’t be isolated, how identity and intergenerational living shape our future, and why cultivating an ecology of communication is key to creating authentic hope and thriving life.

Episode timestamps

00:00: Introduction & Nora’s background; her work on perceiving interdependencies in living systems.
00:04: Nora’s “meadow” metaphor for complexity and the relational conditions shaping life .
00:16: The problem with reductionism, education, and focusing on isolated “problems” .
00:34: Reading from Combining; the meaning of “combining” vs. “combined” — life as ongoing movement .
00:43: Redefining “problems” and “solutions”; towards an “ecology of communication” .
00:54: On double binds, transcontextual issues, and why her “goal” is to create possibility and vitality .
01:00: The importance of “warm data” and the loss of intergenerational living practices .
01:06: On false hope vs. real hope; unexpected cultural change (example: Cardi B’s WAP) .
01:10: Culture, art, and the need for more “weirdness” and creativity in change-making .
01:15: Closing poem Mama Now — a reflection on parenting, integrity, and uncertainty

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