For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Uncover the truth behind chronic illnesses that are often misdiagnosed for years. If you’ve been told your symptoms are anxiety, IBS, or autoimmune, this episode explores a groundbreaking approach that could change everything. Learn how the Shoemaker Protocol, backed by clinical research, helps identify and treat CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) caused by biotoxin exposure like mold.

In this episode, Barbara and Jacie walk through the first phase of the Shoemaker Protocol: determining whether CIRS is the root cause of your symptoms. You’ll learn how to recognize key symptom patterns, use the validated VCS (Visual Contrast Sensitivity) test, and identify common exposure sources such as water-damaged buildings and tick bites.

What you’ll learn: • The 35 symptom clusters linked to CIRS and how to assess your own • How the VCS test can be an early screening tool • Common exposure triggers that are often overlooked • The role of genetics and why pattern recognition matters • The first steps to begin a clinically validated path to recovery

CIRS can create widespread disruption in the body, from immune dysfunction to neurological symptoms, and is frequently mistaken for other conditions. This episode helps you connect the dots so you can move toward targeted, effective healing.

Whether you’re just starting your health journey or searching for answers after years of confusion, this is part one of a five-part series designed to bring clarity, direction, and hope.

Explore more resources and support at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 - Intro: an answer for healing 01:35 - Why we're covering the five phases of the Shoemaker Protocol 02:53 - What is CIRS? 04:09 - Common misdiagnoses 05:25 - Understanding CIRS Symptoms 08:23 - Four Pillars of CIRS Diagnosis: First, Symptom Clusters 09:00 - Second: Visual Contrast Sensitivity Test 12:48 - Third: Exposure History and Its Importance 16:25 - Fourth: Blood Work and Genetic Testing 19:20 - What CIRS is Not 20:30 - Next Steps for Diagnosis 22:15 - Personal Experiences and Hope for Healing 24:00 - Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Jacie and Barbara discuss chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), emphasizing it as a real, multisystem illness rather than “just being tired,” and describe hallmark symptoms like post-exertional malaise (PEM), unrefreshing sleep, brain fog/word-finding issues, orthostatic intolerance, sensory sensitivity, pain, headaches, and the push-crash cycle. They explain how ME/CFS is often hard to diagnose due to lack of a single definitive test, the use of exclusionary testing and symptom criteria, and how cardiopulmonary exercise testing can objectively demonstrate impaired recovery and reduced oxygen utilization, which is useful for disability or legal documentation. They argue the diagnosis is a label, not a root cause, and propose chronic inflammatory response syndrome (CIRS) from biotoxin exposure (often water-damaged buildings/mold) as a potential driver, citing Dr. Ming Dooley’s review comparing ME/CFS research to CIRS treatment outcomes. They outline next steps: assess exposure history and symptom patterns, take symptom clusters and the VCS test, find a CIRS-literate practitioner, address current environments before protocols, and explore resources and their community membership. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro to Chronic Fatigue / medical disclaimer 02:30 Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is real, let's ask WHY 04:26 What is ME/CFS? 06:40 The CFS lived experience 09:09 Getting a ME/CFS diagnosis 11:05 Labels vs root cause 12:08 What is actually happening when you have ME/CFS 13:01 How CIRS may cause ME/CFS: published research backed 15:29 Why doctors miss CIRS 17:14 Next steps if you want to seek treatment 20:10 Testing and find a practitioner that is Shoemaker Certified 21:04 Resources

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Ming Dooley's published research connecting CFS and CIRS: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40806417/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11623837/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41265402/ VCS test and symptom questions for CIRS: https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screening

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

In this episode, Barbara and Jacie discuss how CIRS patients can tell when they’re ready to move to the next step of the Shoemaker Protocol or “graduate,." As always, healing is gradual and should be guided by a CIRS-literate practitioner. They recommend tracking symptoms over time and checking three key questions: whether symptoms are improving, whether labs support improvement, and whether ongoing exposure is still occurring. The Shoemaker Protocol can be divided into three phases: (1) getting out of exposure by identifying and removing biotoxins, (2) clearing biotoxins with binders like cholestyramine (often causing temporary fatigue/constipation) and treating MARCoNS; and (3) repairing immune and hormonal dysfunction with supportive therapies, diet, and lifestyle supports. They also cover what “graduation” means, and common side quests if stalled, including Lyme, gut issues, dental problems, microbiome disruptions, spike protein, and autoimmune-related damage. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Timestamps 00:00 Intro and disclaimer 01:18 The benefits of symptom tracking 03:16 The Shoemaker Protocol in three phases 04:15 Phase One: get out of exposure 06:13 When you can graduate to phase two 09:02 Phase Two: clear the biotoxins (take binders) 11:12 MARCoNs treatment 12:20 Phase Three: repair and regulate 15:03 Fix your brain with VIP Spray 18:51 What "graduation" actually means: Life after CIRS 20:19 When you stall, check for exposure 21:36 Check for Co-infections, co-morbidities, other side quests 25:26 Final takeaways

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: Our Neuroquant episode: https://youtu.be/Lc_LfUeiYTM?si=DNbUj0nSdaXFGIqr Our interview with Jenny Johnson, about Life After CIRS: https://youtu.be/-c_bWUjP_uI?si=3hCbQ_CIkBbXvtTa

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

In their 150th The CIRS Group podcast episode(!!), Jacie and Barbara share practical guidance for reducing actinos in the home, emphasizing that consistent removal matters because a CIRS patient can react whether actinos are dead or alive. This is NOT medical advice: Actinos guidance is leading-edge in the CIRS space, but they share what has worked for them and members of The CIRS Group. For skin, they discuss Defense soap, lava soap, Selsun Blue, Lume acidifying wash, and Johnson’s Baby Shampoo (noting dryness/irritation tradeoffs), plus probiotic lotion for localized issues. For laundry, they recommend washing clothing after one wear, and frequently washing bedding, pillows, and towels. For the home, they advise using a sealed HEPA vacuum broadly (walls, furniture, mattress, woven items), dry and damp dusting (including walls with a wet Swiffer), and using masks. If you feel overwhelmed, try breaking cleaning into manageable chunks, and consider help from cleaners, friends, or family. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 150th Episode Kickoff 01:18 Intro and disclaimer 02:25 Why aren't you in The CIRS Group? 04:10 Why consistent cleaning is important 05:18 Human derived actino tests and strategies 06:57 Skin/hair washing options 11:50 Laundry washing strategies 15:42 Home cleaning strategy (small particle cleaning or SPC) 16:49 Vacuuming and wet wiping / dry wiping 21:36 Making it sustainable 25:34 Wrap Up and Next Steps

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: Book a consultation with Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres: https://consult-christian.as.me/schedule/a89e8b00/appointment/ Book a consultation with Dr. Andrea Jordheim: https://mytransformationwellness.com/about/ SinusKey test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskey Book a consultation with Dr. Lacey: https://www.drlacey.org/ Skin Actino test: https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/actino-skin/?v=7516fd43adaa Larry Schwartz interview on Actinos: https://www.betterhealthguy.com/episode171 Jenny’s actinos episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUIvXrWYZOQ&pp=ygUUamVubnkgam9obnNvbiBhY3Rpbm8%3D ISEAI SPC protocol https://iseai.org/small-particle-cleaning-guide-for-people-with-mold-related-illness/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

To check out the actinos cleaning protocol class Barbara just recorded, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Barbara and Jacie discuss actinos (actinobacteria) in the context of CIRS and how they can drive illness. Notably, Genie Test research suggests 42% of CIRS patients react to Actinos versus 30% to endotoxins and about 10% to mycotoxins. Today's episode covers testing strategies, and if human-derived actino scores are high, they suggest testing your skin with test swabs behind the ear after showering, with a goal of under 10,000 per species and good diversity. They also discuss cyanobacteria and water testing, soil-related sources, sinus microbiome testing (SinusKey), gut testing, and highlight CIRSLab’s Christian Navarro Torres and Dr. Andrea Jordheim's important research in this field. SUBSCRIBE because part two will cover cleaning and removal! To check out the actinos cleaning protocol class Barbara just recorded, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro and disclaimer 01:39 What are actinos? 02:37 Types of actinos and where they come from 06:13 Why actinos matter in CIRS 07:50 How to test for actinos 10:05 How and why to test your skin 11:43 Testing vs just cleaning 12:50 Disclaimer about actinos 14:18 How to deal with Cyanobacteria and water sources 17:25 How to deal with soil derived actinos 20:40 Human sources of actinos: skin, sinus, and gut 25:31 Part Two Teaser and Resources

To check out the actinos cleaning protocol class Barbara just recorded, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS: Actinos test for your home: https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/actino-test/ Actinos test for your skin: https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/actino-skin/ SinusKey for a nasal test: https://patients.microgendx.com/products/sinuskey Check out our interview with Dr. Lacey to learn more about gut testing: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=etUt-z5YSl3-hOLs Dr. Christian Navarro-Torres' website: https://www.cirslab.com/ Dr. Andrea Jordheim's website: https://mytransformationwellness.com/about/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Jacie and Barbara return from an unexpected break, caused by Jacie's autoimmune flare after moving into an apartment with a high actino score. Today's episode outlines what to do during a CIRS “flare” or symptom backslide. Some tips covered inclide: defining early warning signs, using objective tracking tools like the VCS test, symptom logs, and wearables, and scheduling periodic bloodwork (including MSH, MMP-9, and TGF beta-1). Their step-by-step approach emphasizes testing the environment (HERTSMI-2 or ERMI, plus endotoxins and actino), getting on waitlists for CIRS providers and Indoor Environmental Professionals, and addressing root cause through remediation, cleaning, and restarting the protocol. They'll also cover how to reduce inflammation with supportive measures while waiting for care. Once healed from CIRS, many patients build long-term resilience by investigating “side quests” like co-infections and keeping a clean environment. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Timestamps: 00:00 Intro: Back from break 01:20 Disclaimer 02:05 What is a health or autoimmune flare? 03:03 How to monitor your health at home 05:11 First step to recover from a flare: testing 06:26 Environment testing options: Mold, Actinos, Endos 07:49 VCS and bloodwork testing 09:30 Schedule with an Indoor Environmental Professional and/or Doctor 12:05 Treat root cause, but reduce inflammation however you can 14:36 Work on nutrition, supplements, and other therapies 16:53 Cleaning and how Jacie made quick progress 18:01 Mindset: You are not at zero 19:22 Build resilience long term, and attack co-infections 21:17 Take care of yourself

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS: Our episode on testing your environment: https://youtu.be/nRrZs7xbXcc?si=k3zDvBWc_wio7Idu Our episode that covers the VCS test/CIRS diagnosis: https://youtu.be/CCT2iJrbI7w?si=ttQT3rZFsgG2fOdu Our episode on CIRS Bloodwork: https://youtu.be/XMtbxLLZzaU?si=jn_lTvXeHBGKEpVl VCS Test: https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screening Environment Testing: https://lisbiotech.com/home/services-2/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Jacie and Barbara discuss why unlimited money and access to extreme treatments doesn’t usually lead to better or faster healing. Wealth can remove “financial friction,” which inadvertently encourages fear-based, urgent, and uncoordinated decision-making, including fringe or unregulated therapies, constant protocol switching, and symptom-focused biohacking without tracking or testing. They emphasize the importance of strategy, sequencing, and objective measurement, highlighting the Shoemaker Protocol as a foundational, ordered approach for CIRS treatment. They'll also cover how you can evaluate treatments and doctors, and why discernment and thoughtful pacing often matter more than money. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Timestamps 00:00 Intro, let's talk about money 03:33 Does more money mean worse health decisions? 04:22 Acknowledging the difficulty of healing without income 06:04 Sick and Wealthy Psychology Trap 08:51 Real world example of wealthy patient acting recklessly 12:40 Track results, not hype 14:31 There's not one miracle cure for chronic illness 16:00 Timing matters 17:51 Middle class advantages 19:35 How to determine the best treatment and doctor for you 22:40 What makes a great doctor 25:09 Discernment can be greater than money 25:52 Wrap up and encouragement

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Watch our first reaction video to Chris Williamson's health updates: https://youtu.be/5uTs5B6ySHQ?si=qLdsrLLbzmWkiOWK

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

In this week's episode, Barbara and Jacie explain why people with Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome (CIRS) or mold illness should test their home (and workplaces) and when. They'll dig into why multiple tests are better to understand the full picture rather than relying on a single score, and recommend working with an IEP (Indoor Environmental Professional) for interpretation and creating an action plan. They cover MSQPCR dust testing (ERMI/HERTSMI-2), best sampling practices, testing per room/floor, separate testing for basements/crawl spaces/attics, and using an outdoor control sample as well. They discuss why the mold species matter, where to get tests (LisBiotech), and some other methods your IEP may use to test your home: spore traps/air sampling, tape lifts, swabs, bulk sampling, and cultures. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Timestamps 00:00 Intro and disclaimer 01:43 Why should you test your home? 02:20 When should you test your home? 04:09 Side note about testing for mold, actinos and endotoxins 05:19 MSQPCR Dust Testing: ERMI, HERTSMI-2 08:26 How to interpret your ERMI or HERTSMI-2 results 11:06 Where to get MSQPCR dust tests 13:15 When should you hire an Indoor Environmental Professional (IEP) 14:36 Other methods of testing: Air Sampling 16:52 Tape Lift testing 18:34 Swab testing 19:09 Bulk Sampling 21:31 Culturable testing 23:21 Next Steps: vetting professional help 25:48 Retest during and after remediation

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS: Order your dust testing: https://lisbiotech.com/ Our interview with Bill Weber: https://youtu.be/RlKjTqVAeNU?si=9VZ4RnafI6Gx2QRp Our interview with Michael Schrantz: https://youtu.be/_BEwFVdpRcY?si=kmMrR9lPBgffrFND The CIRSx course for Medically Important Remediation: https://institute.cirsx.com/course/mir101

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.