Dust Testing Showdown: EnviroBiomics vs Liz Biotech vs Mycometrics (ERMI/HERTSMI-2 Experiment)

In this CIRS Group Podcast episode, Barbara describes a controlled dust-test experiment comparing MSQ PCR/ERMI results across three CIRS-relevant labs—EnviroBiomics, Liz Biotech, and Mycometrics—using dust collected the same day from the same home and surfaces, divided into left/middle/right sections to reduce sampling bias. The labs returned very different ERMI/HERTSMI-2 scores (Mycometrics 7.4/12, Liz Biotech 13.4/18, EnviroBiomics 18.8/20), while showing broadly similar mold “fingerprints,” suggesting major differences in reported concentrations rather than species detected. They emphasize the test does not prove which lab is correct, recommend using the same lab for pre/post remediation comparisons, and focusing more on individual species profiles than top-line scores. Because all tests detected Stachybotrys and Chaetomium, Barbara suggests repeated deep cleaning, room-by-room retesting with one lab, and involving a CIRS-literate IEP if results remain concerning, while also sharing pricing, feature differences, and a prior EnviroBiomics reporting/customer-service issue.

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Welcome and Setup 01:17 Why Compare Labs 03:33 Experiment Design 04:39 Sampling Strategy 07:22 Undercover Customer Mode 08:48 Results Big Score Gaps 11:44 What It Means 14:18 Practical Takeaways 15:26 Reading Species Profiles 21:58 Advice for This Home 25:45 Lab Pros Cons and Costs 35:53 Final Wrap Up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie discuss what to do when the Shoemaker CIRS protocol feels intolerable, emphasizing the “big three” in order: get out of exposure, use binders, then correct blood markers. They stress testing the home (ERMI 2 minimum, ideally actinos and endotoxins) and choosing to leave, remediate, or use temporary “Band-Aids” like a safe room with an Air Oasis, frequent cleaning, or even sleeping outside in a low-VOC tent. They cover cautious binder use (especially if still in exposure), avoiding risky “crazy supports” like neuro plasmalogens too early, and using “stable supports” such as morning sunlight, sleep, omega-3s, and ensuring daily bowel movements. They compare binders from gentlest to strongest (chitosan, MycoBind, Welchol, compounded CSM) and suggest re-checking other exposures (Lyme/tick-borne, spike protein, dental issues, implants) if binders aren’t tolerated.

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Podcast Welcome 00:39 When Protocol Feels Impossible 02:30 Exposure Comes First 04:10 Leave Or Remediate 06:05 Safe Room And Camping Hacks 09:29 Low Dose Binders In Exposure 12:06 Avoid Risky Supplements 15:31 Stable Supports And Mindset 17:39 Prep For Binders Omega 3 And Poop 22:27 Binder Options Ranked 25:38 If Binders Still Fail 29:46 Detox Self Care And Wrap Up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

On today's episode of The CIRS Group Podcast, Barbara shares a health update. She reports a smoother-than-expected recovery from an August 2025 L5-S1 PLIF spinal fusion, major symptom improvements after going gluten- and dairy-free, adding gut supplements, and tracking with stool testing. She began tick-borne treatment with a specialist using pulsed antibiotics plus biofilm support and albendazole, noting microbiome changes and a post-treatment drop in MSH while continuing low-dose binders and passing the VCS.

Ongoing issues include stubborn MARCoNS and sinus imbalance (multiple rinses/sprays, EDTA+silver side effects, considering ENT evaluation, sleep study, and possibly nebulized treatment). She discusses hormone testing (DUTCH/bloodwork), fibroids/adenomyosis management with oral progesterone, low-dose morning hydrocortisone, and starting testosterone cream. Barbara also covers difficult EMDR therapy attempts, learning shutdown vs fight/flight in Jacie’s nervous system cohort, and supportive care like acupuncture and NUCCA chiropractic. In the next update, she'll cover upcoming labs, retesting results, actino cleaning, and possible iron infusions. She also adds a couple exciting personal life updates: getting married and adopting a puppy!

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro and medical disclaimer 01:11 Spinal fusion recovery 02:02 Gut changes and diet 04:09 Tick Borne treatment 06:34 Why the Shoemaker Protocol didn't work on it's own 08:59 Grief and autoimmune flare 10:20 Upcoming labwork 11:19 MARCoNS sinus battle 13:25 Sleep Study and ENT appointment 15:43 Hormone testing 17:57 Fibroids, progesterone, and cortisol support 21:39 Testosterone treatment and cautions 23:18 Therapy: EMDR fails and incorporation of nicotine 26:13 Shutdown: nervous system regulation tools 31:30 Acupuncture and NUCCA chiropractic adjustments 33:19 TLDR - What's working and what's not 36:15 Happy life updates! 37:40 Future podcast guests and group events

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

HELPFUL LINKS: Jacie's recent health update: https://youtu.be/pGBCx3fwxMk?si=3e8YQzhZdG3bMv43 Barbara's last health update: https://youtu.be/IkcKvfcIIdA?si=1QdRUeqBYIAWI0JS Our hormone episode: https://youtu.be/OStNHRNffqw?si=9cLRWroxRmiwfacQ Learn more about Jacie's nervous system resources: https://builttoregulate.com/

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara welcomes Dr. Kellyn Milani, a naturopathic doctor and primary care physician specializing in complex environmentally acquired illnesses, to discuss tick-borne illness in the context of CIRS aka mold illness. Dr. Milani explains that tick-borne disease is a major trigger for CIRS, emphasizes Lyme occurs in all 50 states, and outlines why testing is limited and Lyme is primarily a clinical diagnosis. She reviews symptom patterns that raise suspicion for Lyme and common co-infections (including Babesia, Bartonella, Anaplasma, Ehrlichia, tick-borne relapsing fever, and Rocky Mountain spotted fever), offers practical guidance for tick removal and testing, and discusses treatment sequencing with the Shoemaker protocol, typical chronic treatment timelines, and managing intensification reactions. She also shares her approach using pulsed antibiotics, herbs, biofilm support, and foundational anti-inflammatory and lifestyle prep, plus ways to connect with her via social platforms, her Skool community, and her clinic wait list.

THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, please consult your own practitioner or work with Dr. Milani for your specific health concerns.

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro 01:37 Why tick-borne illness matters 02:59 When to consider tick-borne testing 06:00 Testing and clinical diagnosis 08:50 Key symptoms to watch for in Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, etc. 15:39 Timing of treatment 18:42 Treatment strategies: antibiotics, herbals, biofilm busting 23:06 How long treatment can take 26:58 Symptom flares and prep tips 33:08 Supportive activities 35:52 How to Work With Dr. Milani 39:50 Outro

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Dr. Milani's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drkellynmilani/ Dr. Milani's Skool community: https://www.skool.com/drkellyn/ Dr. Milani's website (join her waitlist): https://remedynaturalhealth.com/

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this The CIRS Group Podcast episode, hosts Jacie and Barbara interview Max McCord, an indoor environmental professional and president of the Stonecrest Team, about why mold remediation projects can fail even after visible mold is removed. Max explains that the biggest misses are often hidden, hard-to-see species like whitish Aspergillus, and that relying on basic air sampling can wrongly suggest a home is “clear,” while PCR-based testing, such as ERMI dust tests, can reveal what was missed.

He describes using detailed building history, CIRS-focused building science, macro photography, and advanced thermography to identify microclimates, insulation and vapor issues, and other hidden sources. The conversation also covers common containment and demolition mistakes that spread contamination, why coordination among IEPs, remediators, HVAC and insulation contractors matters, and how post-remediation “clearance” can be undone during remodeling by contaminated tools and materials. Max shares his personal CIRS diagnosis and his work with Christian Medical Ministries. Check out https://www.stonecrest.team and https://www.christianmedicalministries.org to learn more.

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro - meet Max McCord 03:20 Why remediation fails 07:46 Tools to detect hidden mold 13:09 Teamwork between IEPs, remediators and contractors 16:28 Containment done right 20:22 Tips to make sure things are done correctly 26:52 Max shares his own CIRS diagnosis 31:02 Ministry and Resources 34:15 Wrap Up and Next Steps

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS: Work with Max McCord: https://www.stonecrest.team/ Christian Medical Ministries: https://www.christianmedicalministries.org/our-board

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Jacie and Barbara share some suggestions for a “CIRS starter pack” inspired by their community: a menu of practical, non-medical supports to help CIRS patients feel better while waiting to see a provider and pursuing root-cause treatment. They cover environmental steps like using an Air Oasis air purifier and improving cleaning/laundry and bedding routines, plus daily hygiene tools like acidifying body wash. They discuss sleep basics (consistent schedule, morning light for MSH, and optimizing light/sound/temperature), hydration and electrolytes for ADH/osmolality issues, nutrition with adequate calories and protein, and the importance of daily bowel movements for binder-based toxin elimination. Gut support includes going gluten-free, ProButyrate, prebiotics (Sunfiber, HMO, beans/edamame), and probiotics (Probiotic Pro, Florastor). They also address slow, titrated movement, recovery tools (sauna, red light, Epsom baths/magnesium spray), nervous system regulation and supportive community, histamine/mast cell strategies (Zyrtec, cromolyn nasal spray, DAO, HistaAid), as well as their own personal starter-pack essentials. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro and disclaimer 01:14 How to use this menu 02:19 Disclaimer 02:58 Environment hacks 08:12 Sleep routine and tips 11:44 Hydration and electrolytes 13:09 Nutrition and diet 15:54 Poop! 17:19 Gut Support: gluten free diet, supplements, beans 21:23 Movement and recovery 24:20 Community 26:46 Nervous System Regulation 31:19 Histamine and mast cell support 32:28 Suggested supplement starter stack 33:48 Feel better while healing (or waiting to heal) 36:09 Jacie and Barbara's personal Starter Packs 39:16 Wrap Up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS MENTIONED: Air Oasis filter: https://www.airoasis.com/ Our insomnia episode: https://youtu.be/1Qj2XRDurUs?si=DnK1wfUBJKqjbbmF Our Dr. Lacey interview: https://youtu.be/baldT8N7nl4?si=_s1jQ3_rNQHTF22S Jacie's Nervous System Resources: https://builttoregulate.com/

CIRS communities: The CIRS Group: https://thecirsgroup.com CIRSLab: https://www.cirslab.com/ CIRS Healing Collective: https://simplifiedwellnessdesigns.com/cirs-healing-collective

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

Barbara and Jacie discuss insomnia as a common CIRS symptom, explaining that CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) can occur in genetically predisposed people exposed to biotoxins like mold, algae blooms, or venomous spider bites, leading to chronic inflammation, cytokine activity, low MSH, and downstream disruption of melatonin, cortisol, and other hormones. They share ways to improve falling asleep (morning sunlight, dim evening lighting, low-dose melatonin, bedtime grounding routines, time-boxing bed use, and acupuncture) and staying asleep (addressing nighttime blood sugar drops with a protein/fat or protein/fiber snack, and managing nocturia from ADH/osmolality dysregulation with electrolytes, fluid timing, and pre-bed bathroom trips). They also cover unrefreshing sleep, sleep environment optimization, hormone testing (including DUTCH panels), and supplements and supports they use, including magnesium, L-theanine, glycine, and KPV, emphasizing practitioner guidance and treating CIRS as the root cause. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Sleep: intro and disclaimer 00:45 What Is CIRS? 02:01 Low MSH and poor sleep connection 03:51 Circadian rhythm resets 05:55 Lighting to support sleep 06:23 Melatonin Done Right 06:46 Anxiety disrupting sleep (cell danger response) 08:37 Benefits of acupuncture 10:09 Why you have trouble staying asleep 11:00 Tips to stabilize your blood sugar 11:53 Nocturia (needing to pee in the middle of the night) 14:00 Unrefreshing Sleep: tips and tricks 15:40 Hormones and Testing 18:33 Personal Sleep Stacks 20:48 Ashwagandha Nightshade PSA 21:31 KPV for Low MSH 22:27 Wrap Up and Next Steps

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

HELPFUL LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: Our episode on what CIRS is: https://youtu.be/eqso4R0cQhg?si=9klrfHeuyKGfUJ4n

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.

In this CIRS Group Podcast episode, hosts Jacie and Barbara interview Brian Tinker, founder of Breathe Well Homes and a master builder with 30+ years of experience, whose work became personal after his wife’s CIRS diagnosis revealed their home’s role in her illness. Brian explains how moisture control is the core issue behind mold problems and why modern “tighter” energy codes can create sick homes without proper ventilation. He highlights common high-risk materials and methods (e.g., OSB, MDF, spray foam off-gassing, flex ducting, traditional grout), shares practical strategies for moisture management, wall assemblies that can dry, and using ERV/HRV systems to keep homes breathing. He discusses cost increases (about 35–45%), his course and consultations, remote build guidance, and his newer Breathe Well Vans concept, plus interest in manufactured homes for faster, lower-cost options. For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

Timestamps

00:00 Intro and disclaimer 02:00 Brian’s CIRS-aware home building journey 04:52 Why modern homes are so prone to getting mold 07:34 Common building materials that promote mold and trigger CIRS 10:58 Brian's opinion of the best era for older homes 13:14 Moisture management for the modern home 17:19 Is there a compromise between energy efficiency and clean air? 21:40 What is a passive house? 23:39 The cost of building a CIRS-aware home 28:32 The Breathe Well Homes mission, and vans! 35:05 Post-interview wrap up

For more information and support, join us at https://thecirsgroup.com

LINKS MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: Brian's website: https://breathewellhomes.com/ Breathe Well Vans: https://www.instagram.com/breathewellvans

Order Jacie's book! The 30 Day Carnivore Bootcamp: https://a.co/d/7MgHrRs

The CIRS Group: Support Community: https://thecirsgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecirsgroup/

Find Jacie for carnivore, lifestyle and limbic resources: Jacie’s book on the Carnivore diet! https://a.co/d/8ZKCqz0 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladycarnivory YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LadyCarnivory Blog: https://www.ladycarnivory.com/

Find Barbara for business/finance tips and coaching: Website: https://www.actlikebarbara.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/actlikebarbara/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@actlikebarbara

Jacie is a Shoemaker certified Proficiency Partner, NASM certified nutrition coach, author, and carnivore recipe developer determined to share the life changing information of carnivore and CIRS to anyone who will listen. Barbara is a business and fitness coach, CIRS and ADHD advocate, writer, speaker, and a big fan of health and freedom. Together, they co-founded The CIRS Group, an online support community to help people that are struggling with their CIRS diagnosis and treatment.