Today we're doing something different. Today, dear listeners, you get two podcasts for the price of one! (OK, our podcasts are both free, but you get the idea).

We're joined today by Chris Comeaux, host of TCN Talks, a podcast about leadership, strategy, innovation, and the future of serious illness care, and author of The Anatomy of Leadership. We are also joined by TCN Talks' frequent guest host Cordt Kassner, CEO of Hospice Analytics, which provides in depth data on hospice quality, utilization, and access, and publisher of Hospice and Palliative Care Today, a daily email about the hottest stories and news in the field.

This is an "ask us anything" style podcast in which we get to ask each other questions. Our discussions focus on concerning trends in hospice, Ira Byock's white paper, concerning trends in hospice, certificate of need, danger of losing a generation of junior researchers and hope in the form of ASCENT, various measures of hospice quality including Cordt's National Hospice Locator, which ranks all area hospice by quality, unlike CMS's Hospice Care Compare, which only has star ratings for about 30% of hospices.

Hospice and palliative care are going through a tough growth period, and sometimes being real with your friends and colleagues in your field means tough love. Love hurts. And no, I'm not attempting the Nazareth version!

-Alex Smith

Philippe Pinel remarked in 1800 that "It is an art of no little importance to administer medicines properly, but it is an art of much greater and more difficult acquisition to know when to suspend or altogether to omit them." This insight remains profoundly relevant today, especially in hospice care, where inappropriate prescribing is a common issue. Studies show that 20%–70% of hospice patients receive at least one unnecessary medication near the end of life, including drugs like antihypertensives, statins, and vitamins.

In this episode of the GeriPal Podcast, we tackle the pressing topic of deprescribing at the end of life with expert guests Jennifer Tjia, Jon Furuno, and Simon Mooijaart. The conversation focuses on identifying medications that should almost always be discontinued—such as statins, osteoporosis meds, finasteride, and vitamins, which offer minimal benefit for patients with limited life expectancy. We also delve into more nuanced cases, such as antithrombotics, which present complex decisions that challenge clinicians, particularly when prognosis spans the many weeks to months range.

Finally, we explore practical strategies for engaging patients and families in deprescribing conversations. Our guests highlight tools such as the FRAME mnemonic (Focus on the goals of care, Review current medications, Assess each medication's risk/benefit, Minimize the medication burden, and Evaluate regularly) and the Goal Concurrent Prescribing tool, which helps ensure medication decisions align with patients' values and end-of-life priorities.

By: Eric Widera

Other resources discussed in the podcast

• Prevalence and Factors Associated With Receiving a Prescription for Antithrombotic Therapy on Hospice Admission," JAGS. 2025

• Discontinuation of Anticoagulants and Occurrence of Bleeding and Thromboembolic Events in Vitamin K Antagonist Users with a Life-limiting Disease. 2025

• Effects of the discontinuation of antihypertensive treatment on neuropsychiatric symptoms and quality of life in nursing home residents with dementia (DANTON): a multicentre, open-label, blinded-outcome, randomised controlled trial. 2024

• Perspectives on deprescribing in palliative care. Expert Review of Clinical Pharmacology. 2023

• Developing a decision support tool for the continuation or deprescribing of antithrombotic therapy in patients receiving end-of-life care: Results of a European Delphi study. Thrombosis Research. 2025

• Human-Centered Design Development and Acceptability Testing of a Goal Concordant Prescribing Program in Hospice. JPM 2025

• Reduction of Antihypertensive Treatment in Nursing Home Residents. NEJM 2025

Do you think your hospital should allow unilateral DNR orders? Under what circumstances? Through what process? Do you think that when you obtain the assent of a family to not code their loved one, that assent DNR should be counted as a unilateral DNR order? Should we document unilateral DNR and the rationale? Why for DNR, when we don't document unilateral dialysis not offered, or unilateral no ECMO offered? Is the assent of a family member to a statement that we will not code their loved one a nudge, and is the assent approach ethical? Reasonable people will disagree, as we do on this podcast.

Our guests today are Gina Piscitello, Erin DeMartino, and Will Parker, authors of a terrific viewpoint in JAMA about the need to address inadequate documentation of unilateral DNR orders. You might recall Gina was a guest on our lively podcast about slow codes, and we pick up where that podcast left off.

We highlight the many clinical, practical, and ethical issues at stake, including Gina's finding that during Covid, 3% of critically ill patients receiving pressors had a unilateral DNR order. Black patients and those who spoke Spanish had higher rates of unilateral DNR. That variation should trouble those in favor of unilateral DNR orders. We talk about variation Gina found at the state and health system level, and what exactly is concerning, the variation itself, or the lack of thought and care that went into some of these policies.

Are you a heartbreaker? Dream Maker? Love taker? Don't you mess around with me. (song hint)

-Alex