Épisodes

  • Dr. John and Shaunna with Dr. Amanda | Martyrs and Saints: Rewriting Motherhood and Medicine
    Dec 31 2025
    This episode of the Voyage Clinics Podcast opens with a powerful and intimate poem by Shaunna Sanders, “Martyrs and Saints,” which reframes motherhood away from exhaustion, self-denial, and moralized sacrifice. The poem challenges cultural and religious narratives that equate worthiness with sleeplessness, constant service, and self-erasure, offering instead a vision of womanhood rooted in rest, boundaries, self-awareness, and divine reflection. It serves as the emotional foundation for a broader conversation about motherhood, identity, and calling.

    Dr. Amanda Primensberger joins Dr. John Sanders and Shaunna to explore the realities of navigating motherhood alongside demanding professional roles in medicine. They reflect on generational expectations of “doing it all,” the loss of self that can occur in both traditional and professional paths, and the pressure placed on women to sacrifice without limits. Dr. Primensberger shares personal stories from medical training and early motherhood that highlight the moral injury, burnout, and family strain caused by rigid healthcare systems that prioritize productivity over humanity.

    The conversation culminates in Dr. Primensberger’s decision to leave traditional healthcare and build a Direct Primary Care practice aligned with her values. By choosing flexibility, transparency, and relational care, she reclaimed presence at home and meaning at work, while modeling courage and sacrifice for her children. The episode ultimately affirms that choosing boundaries, embracing seasons of life, and pursuing alignment over martyrdom can lead to deeper connection, better care, and a more sustainable, integrated life.

    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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    57 min
  • Dr John and Sam Crane | Intentional Health: From Burnout to Biopsychosocial Wellness
    Dec 24 2025
    Dr. John talks with longtime friend Samuel Crane, a credit union CEO and entrepreneur from Moab, about Sam’s multi-year health journey from burnout, brain fog, and obesity to intentional, sustainable wellness. Sam describes hitting a breaking point when he couldn’t remember the word “cucumber” at Subway, realizing that his stress, extra weight, and poor diet were threatening his future with his family. That wake-up call led Sam to start with exercise, mountain biking with an “accountability buddy,” and then move into a strict whole-food “cleanse” of meat and vegetables, which brought intense sugar/carb withdrawals but meaningful progress.

    As Sam shares his journey, the friends dive into how modern processed food and constant overextension create a “metabolic syndrome” culture, people who are technically “well” but tired, foggy, overweight, and inflamed. Dr. John explains the science of mitochondrial function, inflammation, cortisol, and the benefits of morning exercise and intermittent fasting (eating in a shorter window, especially earlier in the day). Sam shares how he used intermittent fasting, periodic prolonged fasts, and ongoing tweaks (guided by DEXA scans and labs) to lose weight, preserve muscle, and reset cravings. Over time, his example, without forcing anyone, shifted his family’s and coworkers’ habits, improved his leadership and energy at work, and helped his kids become more interested in exercise and nutrition.

    The episode ends with a practical takeaway: shop the perimeter of the grocery store, reduce processed foods, find movement you actually enjoy with a community, and be “intentionally imperfect”, course-correct when you slip, rather than giving up.

    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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    49 min
  • Dr. John and Justin Olsen | Stress, Resilience, and the Power of Reframing
    Dec 17 2025
    Dr. John sits down with therapist Justin Olsen, a licensed clinical mental health counselor, to talk about stress, resilience, and mental health. Justin explains that stress is unavoidable, and actually necessary in healthy amounts. Too little stress can lead to lack of purpose and depression, while too much overwhelms us. The key difference between “good stress” (eustress) and “bad stress” (distress) is how we frame it in our minds. Using ideas from cognitive behavioral therapy, Justin describes how situations trigger thoughts, which create emotions, which drive our actions, and how we can reclaim power by examining and reshaping those thoughts. They also discuss grief and loss, acknowledging that some pain should hurt, and that time, meaning-making, and reframing help us move from being consumed by the “black hole” of loss to living alongside it.

    Human connection comes up as a major buffer against stress. Justin and Dr. John talk about the power of small, consistent acts of kindness, texting a loved one, thanking someone, opening a door, as well as intentionally reaching out instead of waiting to be noticed. They highlight research showing that believing your body can handle stress and staying connected to others is more protective than trying to avoid stress altogether. From a resilience standpoint, Justin uses the metaphor of a reservoir: life’s hardships constantly drain water, so we must actively refill it. He focuses on five core practices, adequate sleep, reasonably healthy eating, regular exercise, supportive relationships, and doing things that genuinely make you happy.

    To build resilience, they emphasize simple, repeatable habits rather than dramatic life overhauls, date nights, boundaries at work, hobbies like pickleball or guitar, and movement that boosts brain chemistry and neuroplasticity. They suggest that therapy is especially helpful when stress, grief, or habits are clearly interfering with daily life, work, relationships, motivation, or health. Justin closes with a powerful question from resilience research: “Is what I’m doing right now helping me or hurting me?” If it’s helping, lean in; if it’s hurting, gently choose something kinder for yourself.

    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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    46 min
  • Dr. John and John Hermans | A Physical Therapist’s Guide to Staying Strong for Life
    Dec 10 2025
    In this episode, Dr. John Senager speaks with physical therapist John Hermans, clinical director at Rise Up Rehab in Provo. Hermans begins by sharing his international journey into physical therapy, beginning with pre-med studies, training across Europe, and eventually specializing in biomechanics and manual therapy. The two discuss their shared appreciation for language, movement, and patient-centered care.

    They shift next to the state of healthcare and physical therapy, emphasizing how insurance limitations and bureaucratic requirements often obstruct high-quality, preventative care. Both highlight the value of collaboration between physicians and PTs and the importance of proactive wellness programs that strengthen the body before injury occurs. Hermans describes his clinic’s conservative, evidence-based approach focusing on biomechanics, isometric strengthening, proprioceptive training, and one-on-one care, in contrast to high-volume clinics relying heavily on assistants.

    Finally, they explore the most common injuries Hermans sees in his clinic, including low back pain, workplace-related injuries, motor vehicle trauma, and the now-infamous “pickleball injuries.” They discuss practical ergonomic advice, dynamic warmups, and the need for balanced strength in aging adults, especially the core, hip flexors, and stabilizing muscle chains. Hermans notes that Rise Up Rehab emphasizes individualized attention and consistent care from licensed PTs, setting them apart in the community.

    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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    39 min
  • Dr. John and Dennis Walker | Fixing Employer Healthcare Through DPC
    Dec 3 2025
    In this episode of the Voyage Clinics podcast, John sits down with Dennis Walker, a business administration graduate who made his way into insurance about a decade ago. The episode begins with Dennis outlining how the Affordable Care Act (ACA) changed the market.

    On the one hand, the passing of the ACA meant that preexisting conditions must now be covered (a big win for patients), but premiums have risen dramatically, often doubling for healthy groups and skyrocketing for unhealthy ones. In addition, the ACA profit caps (insurers can only keep about 20% of expenditures) unintentionally reward higher spending, since 20% of a larger total is more profit. Pharma is often handled outside those caps, allowing insurers and PBMs to inflate drug costs through opaque pricing and rebates, driving up claims and profits without transparency.


    Dennis identifies five kinds of brokers, from captive agents and “spreadsheet-only” brokers to true innovators. The “innovator” broker uses data, underwriting, and creative plan design to push back on carriers and build smarter plans. He and John collaborate on the idea that the best plans center around direct primary care (DPC), reference-based pricing tied to Medicare, transparent pharmacy strategies, and smart self-funded or level-funded structures, especially for employers with 50+ employees. Their core message is that CEOs must “own” healthcare for their companies, choose brokers who truly advocate for them, and pair that with a strong DPC partner to make healthcare more affordable, transparent, and sustainable.

    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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    1 h et 5 min
  • Dr. John and Jarom Ball | Nature, Neuroplasticity, and Navigating Trauma
    Nov 26 2025
    ​​In this episode, Dr. John sits down with marriage and family therapist Jarom Ball to explore the profound ways trauma shapes our emotional and physiological responses. Jarom discusses how early experiences of rejection and unworthiness can create deeply ingrained automatic reactions, impacting relationships and self-perception. He explains how traditional therapy methods, such as EMDR, can help regulate these responses but may not fully address all aspects of trauma. Psychedelics like ketamine and psilocybin, by promoting neuroplasticity through BDNF and mTOR activation, provide a unique window for transformation, especially when combined with intentional therapeutic integration.

    Jarom delves into different therapeutic approaches, highlighting Internal Family Systems, which engages the protective parts of the psyche, versus EMDR, which primarily bypasses them. He emphasizes that growth doesn’t always require confronting every traumatic memory at once; even incremental progress in emotional regulation and coping strategies can significantly enhance life quality. Jarom notes that unresolved trauma often manifests as autonomic dysregulation, where the body overreacts to triggers. Integrating therapy with psychedelic-assisted experiences, when accessible, can help rewire these patterns and create lasting change.

    The conversation also examines the impact of modern life and environmental factors on mental well-being. Dr. John and Jarom discuss how constant exposure to digital media and global stressors overwhelms our nervous systems, contrasting this with the benefits of reconnecting with nature, foraging, and direct contact with the earth. Such practices enhance intuition, emotional sensitivity, and overall well-being, offering a grounding balance to the high-tech, high-stress modern world. The episode ultimately emphasizes a holistic approach to healing, combining trauma-informed therapy, neuroplasticity through psychedelics, and reconnection with nature to cultivate resilience, growth, and human flourishing.

    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.

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    1 h et 4 min
  • Dr. John and Neer Patel | Breaking the Chains of Healthcare with DPC-Centered Plans
    Nov 19 2025
    In this episode of the Voyage Clinics Podcast, Dr. John Sanders sits down with Neer Patel, a former engineer turned benefits innovator, whose wife, like Dr. Sanders, a Direct Primary Care physician. Together, they explore how their families have become advocates for a more transparent and values-driven healthcare system. Neer shares his journey from corporate America into healthcare entrepreneurship, explaining how his background in sales and marketing helped grow his wife’s DPC practice by educating both patients and business owners about the real costs of care and the power of the DPC model.


    As their conversation deepens, Neer explains how repeated talks with business owners exposed a common problem: unsustainable insurance premiums that prevented employers from offering DPC memberships to their teams. Determined to solve it, he dove into the health insurance world and discovered how hidden network contracts and inflated claims drive up costs. That realization led him to co-found a company that removes traditional network contracts, brings transparency to pricing, and integrates DPC at the core of employer health plans, all designed to eliminate waste and return advocacy to the heart of healthcare.

    Dr. Sanders and Neer discuss how Neer’s approach parallels the DPC movement itself, cutting out middlemen, focusing on real relationships, and giving patients and employers control over their healthcare dollars. By combining DPC’s personalized care with an actively managed, transparent coverage model, they demonstrate how businesses can provide better healthcare at lower costs while restoring trust, clarity, and compassion to the system.


    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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    55 min
  • Dr. John | From BRCA to Liquid Biopsies: A Doctor’s Guide to DNA Screening
    Nov 12 2025
    Dr. John Sanders explores the evolving world of genetic screening — from traditional genome sequencing for inherited risks like BRCA, Lynch syndrome, and clotting disorders, to newer technologies like liquid biopsies and pharmacogenomics. He explains how genetics can guide prevention, but also how complex the interpretation is, especially when epigenetics — the environmental “on/off switches” for genes — plays a massive role in actual disease expression.

    He highlights both the promise and limitations of current tools. Liquid biopsies, for example, can screen for dozens of cancers via blood, but are expensive, not insurance-covered, and may detect cancers too late to change outcomes meaningfully. Pharmacogenomics — using genetic testing to guide medication choices — is fascinating in theory, but in real life doesn’t always align with clinical response, and rarely justifies its current out-of-pocket cost. Much of this technology is still ahead of its evidence.

    Dr. Sanders urges a thoughtful, ethical approach: screening can be empowering — but can also create unnecessary fear and possibly even trigger disease expression via stress. He stresses staying grounded in data, preserving patient peace of mind, and remembering the most powerful epigenetic “medicine” is still lifestyle — sleep, exercise, low stress. It’s innovation with responsibility, not blind adoption.

    Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice nor as a substitute for professional medical consultation, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
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    25 min