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The Special Lists

The Special Lists

De : Referral Lab
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The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn’t easy, and if you’re in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you’re on an island. That’s why finding your people—those who’ve been in your shoes and can share real, lived experiences—changes the game.

Referral Lab is for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It’s about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter. This spirit of connection drives The Special Lists podcast.

Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you hard-earned wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, each guest sharing their own "special list" from the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape their practices today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's!)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.


Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Dr. Seda’s interests are rooted in evaluating and influencing private practice management systems in dentistry. He wants to increase practice efficiency, establish a greater sense of collaboration and trust among practice team members, and enhance quality of care and service delivered—all while maximizing and growing profitability.

Through associateship opportunities early in his career, Dr. Seda was exposed to various private practice leadership and business models. He witnessed first-hand inconsistencies in the degree of success and failure owners experienced in private practices. This ignited his passion for learning what empowers practices to thrive and grow successfully while delivering a highly satisfying patient experience.

He is particularly interested in using cutting-edge analytics platforms to measure advanced practice metrics. He leverages these to design data-driven strategies to enhance referral patterns, scheduling systems, case acceptance rates, and other key performance indicators that lead to practice growth and patient satisfaction.

His education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master’s degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.


Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis
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  • Special List #23: Partners vs. Associates - What Most Owners Get Wrong with Dr. Adam McClellan

    Special List #23: Partners vs. Associates - What Most Owners Get Wrong with Dr. Adam McClellan
    Jul 9 2026
    Bring a second periodontist into one of your offices and the dentists who send you cases will still ask for you by name. Adam McClellan's fix is counterintuitive — he stops taking new patients at that location entirely, so there's no option to request him, and the incoming doctor inherits those relationships outright.Adam is the CEO of Periodontal Care, a five-location periodontal group he built across the Kansas City metro over a decade through seven acquisitions and mergers — while vetting and passing on seven more. He talks with Cameron, Jason, and Michael about what it actually takes to grow from one practice to five without the whole thing depending on you.He gets specific about how he sizes up a practice before he buys it: staff dynamics and ages, where the cases are coming from, location overlap with offices he already owns, and why a practice built on direct-to-consumer marketing was a hard no for a referral-based group like his.Adam breaks down the meeting cadence that keeps his partners aligned — weekly one-on-ones, a monthly all-partner meeting, and a quarterly retreat where he hands everyone a mandate to tell him exactly what's broken. He's candid about the misses too, like the masterful three-office rollout he and his director of operations crumpled up on day two, and how learning to pivot fast became the skill that scaled the business.Plus the inside-baseball stuff: the clinical “safe word” he shares with his assistants to reset when a surgery gets tense, the “exit code” that rescues him from a room running long, the ruptured Achilles that gave him the downtime to plan his next expansion, and why he tells every dentist he meets to invest in ergonomic loupes.GuestDr. Adam McClellan is a board-certified periodontist and CEO of Periodontal Care, a specialty group with five locations across the Kansas City metro that he built over roughly a decade through seven acquisitions and mergers. Licensed in both Kansas and Missouri, he graduated with top honors from the University of Missouri–Kansas City's dental and periodontal programs, where he earned the American Academy of Periodontology's student achievement award and the Pierre Fauchard Academy's merit award.His clinical focus is hard and soft tissue reconstruction, periodontal microplastic surgery, and the surgical placement of dental implants, and he is certified in LANAP laser therapy through the Institute for Advanced Laser Dentistry. He founded the Northland Dental Study Club and holds memberships in the American Academy of Periodontology, the American Academy of Osseointegration, and the Midwest Society of Periodontology. He is currently expanding the group's in-house IV sedation services.Learn more about Periodontal Care: periodontalcarepa.comQuestions answered by this episode:How do I grow a dental practice through acquisitions and mergers?What should I look for before acquiring another dental practice?How do I add a partner or associate without losing my referrals?How do I manage multiple doctors across several office locations?How often should dental partners meet to stay aligned?What should happen at a dental partnership retreat?Can AI replace dental front desk and assistant roles?How do I scale a specialty practice without burning out?Why do referred patients wait years before booking with a specialist?Should I delegate operations to a director of operations?About The Special ListsThe Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.ioHostsCameron FullCo-Founder of Referral LabCameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.Connect with Cameron on LinkedInJason Souyias, DDSPeriodontist and Co-Founder of Referral LabDr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab ...
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    54 min
  • Special List #22: Failing is Growing with Dr. Gregg Kinzer

    Special List #22: Failing is Growing with Dr. Gregg Kinzer
    Jun 25 2026
    Owning the hardware is not the same as knowing what to do with it. Gregg Kinzer has spent 30 years teaching dentists to think their way through complex cases, and he argues the profession is drifting toward letting the computer do the thinking instead.Gregg is a Seattle prosthodontist, Faculty Chairman at Spear Education, and one of dentistry's most respected educators. He joins Cameron Full and Dr. Michael Seda for a wide conversation about where dental education is headed, what it actually means to practice digitally, and why failure is the part of the job nobody prepares you for.On education, Gregg draws a hard line between teaching and entertaining. A lot of what passes for CE now is show-and-tell, impressive cases a dentist will never replicate in their own operatory. Real learning, he says, happens in small rooms where people get pushed, and in actually reading the literature instead of skimming the conclusions.On technology, he makes the case that a scanner alone doesn't make a practice digital. The real work starts with how you use the data after the scan. He's optimistic about where AI could take treatment planning and clear-eyed about how a bad prompt, or a brand-new material with no long-term studies behind it, can cost you years and real money.On failure, Gregg gets honest about perfectionism. He thinks a profession full of high achievers talked itself into believing every restoration should last forever, and that the harshest environment in the human body guarantees otherwise. The real fix is telling patients the risks before treatment, not explaining them after something breaks.And on the cost of ambition, he doesn't pretend he has it solved. Everything costs something, and every yes is a no somewhere else. The line that stays with you is the question his nine-year-old asked him years ago, the one he still hasn't shaken.GuestDr. Gregg Kinzer is a prosthodontist in Seattle, where he runs a private practice limited to comprehensive restorative and esthetic dentistry alongside his wife, Dr. Jill Kinzer. He serves as Faculty Chairman and Director of Curriculum and Campus Education at Spear Education in Scottsdale, Arizona, and as an Affiliate Assistant Professor in Graduate Prosthodontics at the University of Washington School of Dentistry, where he earned his DDS in 1995 and his prosthodontics certificate and MSD in 1998.He is the sitting President of the American Academy of Esthetic Dentistry and a recipient of the Seattle Study Club's Saul Schluger Memorial Award for clinical excellence in diagnosis and treatment planning. With Dr. Jeff Rouse, he co-developed the Seattle Protocol for diagnosing and treating airway issues, and he is co-authoring the forthcoming Global Diagnosis II with Dr. Bill Robbins and Dr. Jeff Rouse. He also holds an adjunct faculty appointment at the Arizona School of Dentistry and Oral Health.Learn more about Dr. Kinzer at Spear Education: speareducation.com/faculty/bio/greggory-kinzerQuestions answered by this episode:Is buying an intraoral scanner enough to make my practice digital?What does it actually mean to run a digital dental practice?Is digital dentistry making clinicians less skilled?How do I choose continuing education that teaches me to think, not just copy techniques?Why is so much dental CE on YouTube and Instagram unreliable?How do I learn to read dental literature instead of just the conclusions?Can AI help with dental treatment planning, and what are the risks?Why shouldn't I use a brand-new dental material right when it launches?Why do dentists blame themselves when a restoration or crown fails?How do I talk to patients about the risk of treatment failure before it happens?About The Special ListsThe Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.ioHostsCameron FullCo-Founder of Referral LabCameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and...
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    53 min
  • Special List #21: What I'd Tell My Younger Self After 31 Years in Solo Practice with Dr. Eman Traynor

    Special List #21: What I'd Tell My Younger Self After 31 Years in Solo Practice with Dr. Eman Traynor
    Jun 11 2026
    The thing nobody tells you about running your own dental practice is that the anxiety doesn't quiet down — it just gets louder for the first 20 years, and then you look back and realize none of the things you were afraid of actually happened. Eman Traynor knows. She built Traynor Periodontics & Implants from scratch in Greenwich, Connecticut in 1998 and ran it solo for 27 years on a steady drip of stress she now wishes she'd ignored.What follows is her special list: five hard-won lessons from a 31-year periodontics career, the ones she wishes someone had handed her at the start.Leading with embracing risk and failure, she admits anxiety is part of the path, but the path leads somewhere good, and you arrive whether you enjoy the trip or not. Eman didn’t, and that’s the regret she opens with.Walking through operations, she advises systemizing everything because discipline sets you free. Hire one more person than you think you need, because running lean costs more than the salary you saved.Master your data, because you can’t run a business on feel. She names her consultant (Mary Ann Spears), her platform (Referral Lab), and the moment she stopped reacting emotionally to bad days because she finally had the numbers to tell a different story.On technology, her rule is simple: never buy version one. She likes Freed.ai for chairside notes (it learns her words and emails the patient a summary after the consult), but she’s not an early adopter, and that’s by design.She closes with her case for solo practitioners not staying solo in spirit. The five people you spend the most time with shape you. For Eman, those five came from the Seattle Study Club, including her hosts Cameron Full and Dr. Michael Seda. GuestDr. Eman Traynor is the founder and solo periodontist at Traynor Periodontics & Implants in Greenwich, Connecticut, where she has been in private practice for over 27 years. She earned her DMD at Washington University School of Dental Medicine in St. Louis in 1991, completed a general practice residency at Barnes/Jewish Hospital at Washington University Medical Center, and earned her Master of Science in periodontics at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1995, where her research focused on the link between insulin-dependent diabetes and periodontal disease. Her practice is an affiliate of the Seattle Study Club, and she directs both Traynor Periodontics & Implants Study Club and an affiliated hygiene study club. Born in Egypt and raised between the UK and the US, she built her Greenwich practice from scratch in 1998 and has stayed solo ever since.Learn more about Traynor Periodontics & Implants: tpigreenwich.com.Follow Eman's practice on Instagram @traynorperiodonticsQuestions answered by this episode:1. How do solo dental practitioners deal with anxiety long-term?2. Why do most dentists hold onto employees too long?3. Is it better to over-hire or run lean in a dental practice?4. How do you build standard operating procedures in a dental office?5. What KPIs should periodontists track to grow their practice?6. Should I be the first to adopt new dental technology?7. Does Freed.ai work for chairside dental notes?8. Is the Seattle Study Club worth joining as a solo dental specialist?9. How do you start a solo periodontal practice from scratch?10. What advice would a 30-year periodontist give her younger self?About The Special ListsThe Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.ioHostsCameron FullCo-Founder of Referral LabCameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.Connect with Cameron on LinkedInJason Souyias, DDSPeriodontist and Co-Founder of Referral LabDr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches ...
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    55 min
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