This is a Vintage episode from 2006.

Jay Weinstein, author of The Ethical Gourmet, explains how everyday food choices affect farmers, animals, workers, the environment—and what ultimately ends up on the plate.

Why This Episode Matters

• Why inexpensive food may carry environmental and taxpayer-funded costs that are hidden from shoppers
• How farm subsidies can favor industrial agriculture over smaller farms
• Why ethical production and better flavor often meet at the same farm
• Practical ways to buy more responsibly without attempting dietary sainthood
• The enduring value of local farms, CSAs, seasonal produce, and preserving food at its peak

Banter

Mark and Francis begin with an important distinction: a cookout is not necessarily barbecue. From college pig roasts that finished around 2:00 a.m. to whole-hog dining in Manhattan, the conversation becomes a loving tribute to smoke, pork, poor planning, and the dangerous optimism of hungry men.

The Conversation

Jay Weinstein joins the show to discuss The Ethical Gourmet and the confusion surrounding terms such as organic, natural, local, humane, and sustainable. He argues that diners do not need to solve every problem in the food system; even switching to products such as organic dairy and eggs can support better farming practices. The discussion examines the hidden costs of inexpensive food, including agricultural subsidies, petroleum-based fertilizers, industrial production, and the pressure placed on smaller farms. Jay, Mark, and Francis also explore whether ethically raised food necessarily tastes better, agreeing that the difference becomes especially clear with well-raised chicken, meat, eggs, and ripe seasonal produce. The conversation closes with local farms, CSAs, preserving tomatoes and fruit, and one essential summer commandment: do not refrigerate a good tomato.

Timestamps

0:00 Cookouts, real barbecue, and the hazards of roasting a whole pig
7:25 Jay Weinstein and the idea behind The Ethical Gourmet
10:25 One simple ethical food choice anyone can make
16:35 Can ordinary families afford ethically produced food?
19:00 The hidden costs of cheap food and agricultural subsidies
24:00 Local farms, CSAs, seasonal produce, and preserving the harvest
31:00 Why good tomatoes should never be refrigerated

Bio

Jay Weinstein is a chef, journalist, and author of The Ethical Gourmet. His work has appeared in publications including The New York Times and Travel + Leisure, and he previously cooked at Le Bernardin.

Info

The Ethical Gourmet by Jay Weinstein

C-A-J-A-C-H-I-N-A, https://lacajachina.com/

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Recorded live before an audience at Sunken Harbor Club in Brooklyn.

Why This Episode Matters

• Gage & Tollner’s revival shows how a historic restaurant can be preserved without turning it into a museum.
• Sunken Harbor Club demonstrates how tropical cocktail history can be reworked through modern technique, research, and strong storytelling.
• St. John and Garret offer practical insight into crowdfunding, opening during COVID, and building a destination bar above a landmark restaurant.
• The conversation connects serious non-alcoholic cocktails, classic steakhouse drinks, the Martini, and Charles H. Baker Jr. to the larger evolution of cocktail culture.

The Conversation

The live conversation opens with Mark admitting that it took him several meetings to realize writer St. John Frizell and bartender “Sinjin” Frizell were the same person. Francis recalls Garret recognizing The Restaurant Guys at Tales of the Cocktail, back when being recognized in public was still a notable event.

From there, St. John tells the improbable story of finding Gage & Tollner’s landmarked interior beneath the remains of a TGI Fridays, an Arby’s, and a makeshift mall. He explains how 450 crowdfunding investors helped revive the historic Brooklyn oyster and chophouse and how the restaurant was preparing to open when COVID closed New York.

Garret traces Sunken Harbor Club from a weekly pop-up to one of the country’s most distinctive cocktail bars. He explores forgotten tropical formats, historic steakhouse drinks, the challenge of creating serious non-alcoholic cocktails, and the timelessness of the Martini.

The conversation also reaches Charles H. Baker Jr., his amazing life and the idea that a great drink can be built as much on story and context as on the recipe itself.

Timestamps

00:00 Live from Sunken Harbor Club
02:00 St. John, Sinjin and a James Bond pronunciation lesson
04:00 Garret’s first encounter with The Restaurant Guys
05:30 The opening cocktails and Sunken Harbor’s menu philosophy
08:30 Gage & Tollner prepares to open as COVID closes New York
11:00 How the Sunken Harbor Club began as a weekly pop-up
14:00 Finding Gage & Tollner behind false walls
17:00 Raising $450,000 from 450 crowdfunding investors
20:00 Reconstructing forgotten cocktails and the Cross Current
25:30 Historic steakhouse drinks meet tropical cocktails
30:30 Why serious non-alcoholic cocktails are so difficult
42:00 Martinis, Charles H. Baker and cocktails built around stories

Bios

St. John Frizell is a writer, restaurateur and co-owner of Gage & Tollner and Sunken Harbor Club in Brooklyn. His work has appeared in publications including Bon Appétit, Saveur and Punch, and he is also the founder of the acclaimed Red Hook restaurant and bar Fort Defiance and a noted authority on cocktail writer and adventurer Charles H. Baker Jr.

Garret Richard is the Chief Cocktail Officer of Sunken Harbor Club and the co-author, with Ben Schaffer, of Tropical Standard. His career includes acclaimed cocktail programs at Existing Conditions, Slowly Shirley, ZZ’s Clam Bar and Exotica, and VinePair named him its 2024 Next Wave Bartender of the Year.

Info

Sunken Harbor Club
Brooklyn, New York

Gage & Tollner
Brooklyn, New York

Tropical Standard
By Garret Richard and Ben Schaffer

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This is a Vintage episode from 2005.

The Restaurant Guys welcome Launny Steffens, co-founder of Vineyard 7 & 8 in Napa Valley’s Spring Mountain District, for a conversation about mountain fruit, terroir, and the pursuit of a more food-friendly California Cabernet Sauvignon.

Why This Episode Matters

• Launny explains why he chose Spring Mountain for Vineyard 7 & 8 and why elevation, slope, fog, and sun exposure matter in Napa Cabernet.
• The conversation explores terroir in practical terms: how land, weather, soil, and farming choices show up in the glass.
• The Guys discuss the tension between powerful “cult Cabernet” styles and wines built with more restraint and food in mind.
• Launny shares the reality behind the romance of owning a winery: expensive land, long timelines, and the old joke about making a small fortune by starting with a large one.
• The episode captures Vineyard 7 & 8 early in its story, when it was still establishing its place among Napa’s ambitious mountain wineries.

Banter

Mark and Francis begin with cocktail calories and discover that a Long Island Iced Tea is practically a meal with a hangover attached. From piña coladas to watermelon martinis, they make the case for drinking better, drinking moderately, and avoiding anything that turns one cocktail into lunch.

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys welcome Launny Steffens of Vineyard 7 & 8, a Spring Mountain winery focused on Cabernet Sauvignon. Launny explains how he came to wine after a corporate career and why he believed Napa’s mountain vineyards offered the best chance to produce something distinctive. He talks about choosing a 15-acre site with vines originally planted by David Abreu, studying the vineyard through extensive soil sampling, and improving the health of the vines over time.

The conversation turns to the difference between mountain-grown and valley-floor fruit, with Launny describing how elevation, slope, and longer sunlight exposure influence the grapes. Mark and Francis press him on the risk of making a more restrained, food-friendly Cabernet at a time when bigger, higher-alcohol wines often attracted major scores. Launny says the goal was to make a traditional Cabernet that still reflected California’s growing season, without letting power overwhelm flavor or the meal.

After the interview, Mark and Francis reflect on California agriculture, local produce, and the appeal — and limits — of the slower West Coast life. The show then broadens into a conversation about sustainability, salmon, overfishing, short-term thinking, and why preserving food systems requires looking beyond the next market price.

Timestamps

0:00 Cocktail calories, moderation, and the Long Island Iced Tea problem
8:30 Launny Steffens joins the show and introduces Vineyard 7 & 8
10:00 Why Spring Mountain and mountain-grown Cabernet matter
14:00 Soil, farming, elevation, and building a healthier vineyard
16:30 Restraint, food-friendly Cabernet, and pushing back against bigger-is-better wines
21:00 California agriculture, local produce, salmon, and sustainability

Bio

Launny Steffens is the co-founder of Vineyard 7 & 8, a Napa Valley winery located in the Spring Mountain District. After a career in corporate America and investment advising, he pursued the long-term project of building a winery focused on site-driven Cabernet Sauvignon from mountain fruit.

Info
Vineyard 7 & 8 https://www.vineyard7and8.com/

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Stage Left Steak
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Stage Left Wineshop
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