What happens when we avoid the hard conversations? Dr. Julie Pham, Founder/CEO of Curiosity Based and author of "Seven Forms of Respect," shares the messy truth about when she got it wrong—and what changed when she finally chose directness over avoidance.

Julie opens up about quitting a job through manufactured martyrdom rather than honesty, workplace gossip that spectacularly backfired, and the uncomfortable question that kept her up at night. When her boss told her to "let it go," she trusted her gut instead—and ended up modeling the behavior her entire team needed.

Drawing on her parents' journey fleeing Vietnam by boat, Julie reminds us that courage is relative. And sometimes the bravest thing we can do is slow down, stop judging ourselves and others, and have the direct conversation—even when it takes months to get there.

Key Insights:

• Courage doesn't have to be immediate. Julie took months to process before having a difficult conversation. "Sometimes our expectations of having to respond right away actually gets us to maybe respond in a way that is just more reactive than thoughtful."
• You can't outsource your courage. When Julie complained about her boss to a peer, that peer spread her words around the organization. "I can't expect other people to fight my battles for me. I can't expect other people to save me."
• Trust your gut over bad advice. Against her boss's advice to ignore an uncomfortable situation, Julie had direct conversations and apologized. Her boss later told her: "You actually modeled the behavior that we should have here."
• Building relationships requires risk. "We don't know how they're going to take it. All I can do is stay true to myself and maybe that'll work and we'll have a deeper relationship and for other people it's gonna isolate us even more."

Connect with Julie:

• LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliepham2/
• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/juliephamphd
• Website: https://curiositybased.cominstagram

Connect with The Courage Effect:

• Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
• Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
• Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
• Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about

Support the Show:

If this episode resonated with you:

• Leave a review on your podcast platform
• Share this episode with someone who would benefit from Suzanne’s story

Stay courageous.

#83: The Courage Effect: 2025 Season Finale

Suzanne reflects on this season's powerful conversations and asks: What are you waiting for permission to do?

Season Themes:

Speaking the Unspeakable From menopause (Jill Angelo) to family secrets (Susan Liu) to standing in gaps others won't (Andrea Anderson) — courage means saying what needs to be said.

The Courage to Bear Witness Ashley Gilbertson documented Officer Eugene Goodman at the Capitol on January 6th, reminding us we can't look away from hard truths.

Self-Compassion as Strategy Massimo Backus: Being kind to yourself isn't soft — it's strategic. Stop wearing leadership costumes and show up authentically.

Permission Over Perfection We're better at giving others permission than ourselves. What are you tolerating that you no longer want to?

Standout Quotes:

Andrea Anderson: "I've always been comfortable standing in the gap that others don't want to stand in."

Pelumi Nubi: "Is this fear mine, was it given to me, or do I need to give it back?"

Susan Liu: "Sometimes the stories we're not allowed to tell are exactly the ones that the world needs to hear."

Three Questions:

1. What am I waiting for permission to do?
2. Who am I waiting to tell me it's okay?
3. What am I tolerating that I no longer want to?

The Call:

Stop apologizing. Stand in the gap. Bear witness. Take risks. Give yourself permission to be imperfect, human, and fully you.

Let's stop discharging pain through blame and create real change — by speaking up, telling stories, and showing what's in the world.

And thank you Stephen Pressfield for the inspiration: Put Your Ass Where Your Heart Wants To Be

Connect with The Courage Effect:

• Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
• Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
• Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
• Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about

Support the Show:

If this episode resonated with you:

• Leave a review on your podcast platform
• Share this episode with someone who would benefit from our stories

Stay courageous.

#82: In this raw and personal mini episode, Suzanne opens up about a month of grief and disruption — losing her aunt to aggressive cancer and having a massive tree crash through her dining room skylight on her wedding anniversary.

She reflects on what it means to feel safe and secure when life reminds us how fragile everything is. This episode is an invitation to examine our own lives: What are we taking for granted? Who do we need to call? What truly matters?

She invites us to consider:

• What are you taking for granted right now?
• What gives you real security beyond physical structures?
• Who needs to hear from you?
• What can you let go of as we head toward year-end?
• Where do you need to be more present?

A Note from Suzanne:

This episode is raw and unpolished — and that's intentional. Sometimes courage is just about showing up, being honest, and saying "this is where I am." Thank you for your patience and grace.

The final episode of this season drops in two weeks.

Connect with The Courage Effect:

• Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
• Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
• Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
• Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about

Support the Show:

If this episode resonated with you:

• Leave a review on your podcast platform
• Share this episode with someone who would benefit from Suzanne’s story