Welcome back to Our Agile Tales, where we continue our conversation with Bjarte Bogsnes to go over case studies from his latest book, This Is Beyond Budgeting. His new book distills nearly three decades of real-world experience challenging traditional budgeting, targets, and control-based management.

In this episode, we discuss the ingrained corporate budgeting practices, their inefficacies, and how to shift towards more adaptive, event-driven planning. The conversation also delves into the performance management debate and examines Handelsbanken's exceptional model, a bank that has successfully operated without traditional budgets, targets, or individual bonuses since the 1970s. Bjarte emphasizes the importance of separating accounting from forward-looking planning and highlights the impact of empowering employees and fostering transparency in achieving organizational success.

Key topics and approximate timestamps

• 00:00 Introduction to Agile Tales
• 01:08 Challenges with Traditional Budgeting
• 02:04 Separating Accounting from Forward Planning
• 03:49 The Importance of Dynamic Management
• 05:47 Rethinking Performance Management
• 09:42 Case Study: Handelsbanken
• 13:50 The Origins of Handelsbanken's Approach
• 17:59 The Evolution of Beyond Budgeting
• 20:46 Handelsbanken's Unique Management Model
• 29:30 Episode Conclusion

About Bjarte Bogsnes

Bjarte Bogsnes is the Chairman of the Beyond Budgeting Round Table, a former global finance executive, and a leading thinker in management innovation. He is the author of Implementing Beyond Budgeting and This Is Beyond Budgeting, where he distills nearly three decades of real-world experience challenging traditional budgeting, targets, and control-based management.

Bjarte's work demonstrates how organizations can replace rigid, calendar-driven systems with models built on trust, transparency, and adaptability. The result is creating companies that are not only more responsive but also more human.

You can follow Bjarte Bogsnes at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjarte-bogsnes-41557910/

Our music is from https://www.purple-planet.com.

Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

Welcome to a new season of Our Agile Tales.

We have brought back Bjarte Bogsnes, Chairman of Beyond Budgeting Round Table, and is a popular international business speaker and Beyond Budgeting coach. He is an award-winning author and long-time champion of more adaptive human organizations. In this series of episodes, Bjarte reflects on 25 years of management innovation and the evolution of Beyond Budgeting far beyond its financial origins.

Our episode starts with a refresher on what Beyond Budgeting is, and why it is so often misunderstood as "just a finance thing." From there, we explore how deeply traditional management assumptions shape behavior, trust, and decision-making inside organizations. Bjarte uses metaphors, real-world examples, and decades of experience to explain why many well-intended Agile and Lean transformations stall or fail if they don't address and rethink the management processes. We dive into Theory X and Theory Y, the hidden damage caused by fixed targets and calendar-driven planning, and how separating targets, forecasts, and resource allocation can fundamentally change behavior. Throughout the episode, Bjarte makes the case that true business agility requires coherence and alignment between leadership principles and management systems. Without this alignment, successful long-term transformations will not be achieved.

Key topics and approximate timestamps

• 00:00 – Introduction to Our Agile Tales
• 01:52 – Why Beyond Budgeting is not about finance—and why the name still matters
• 04:30 – Challenging traditional management assumptions: trust and predictability
• 07:10 – Leadership principles vs. management processes: where companies break coherence
• 10:00 – Why Agile and Lean need Beyond Budgeting to scale at the enterprise level
• 13:21 – Theory X and Theory Y: how beliefs about people shape management models
• 16:40 – The problem with combining targets, forecasts, and resource allocation
• 18:30 – Gaming, sandbagging, and unintended consequences of budgeting systems
• 20:24 – What's wrong with traditional targets—and how relative targets change behavior
• 23:10 – Moving from calendar-driven planning to business- and event-driven rhythms
• 26:00 – Continuous decision-making as a Beyond Budgeting version of continuous delivery
• 28:29 – Closing reflections and broader implications for adaptive organizations

About Bjarte Bogsnes

Bjarte Bogsnes is the Chairman of the Beyond Budgeting Round Table, a former global finance executive, and a leading thinker in management innovation. He is the author of Implementing Beyond Budgeting and This Is Beyond Budgeting, where he distills nearly three decades of real-world experience challenging traditional budgeting, targets, and control-based management.

Bjarte's work demonstrates how organizations can replace rigid, calendar-driven systems with models built on trust, transparency, and adaptability. The result is creating companies that are not only more responsive but also more human.

You can follow Bjarte Bogsnes at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bjarte-bogsnes-41557910/

Our music is from https://www.purple-planet.com.

Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about

Welcome to another episode of Our Agile Tales, Navigating World Crises: The Agile-Law-AI Alliance in Action!

In this episode, we continue our conversation with Ondřej Dvořák, CEO of Agile Lawyer and COP Solutions, and co-founder of LinkingHelp. Building on his experience supporting Ukrainian refugees, Ondřej shares how Agile practices like Scrum and Kanban made it possible to coordinate large-scale, cross-border legal aid while respecting privacy and professional responsibility.

We explore how visibility and transparency enabled fast action without exposing sensitive data, why government funding often moves too slowly for crisis response, and how donation-driven initiatives struggle once a crisis becomes the “new normal.” Ondřej argues that sustainable humanitarian work must blend social impact with viable business models.

The conversation also dives into AI in legal services—not as a silver bullet, but as an accelerator that only works once processes, data, and transparency are in place. We discuss why AI should assist lawyers rather than replace them, the data-protection concerns slowing adoption, and what the future holds for agile, AI-assisted law firms.

Episode Outline

• 00:00 Introduction to Agile Tales
• 00:53 Agility in Humanitarian Efforts
• 02:12 Transparency and Visibility in Legal Aid
• 03:55 Challenges with Government Bureaucracy
• 05:39 LinkingHelp's Broader Impact
• 07:53 AI's Role in Legal Services
• 11:11 Future of AI and Agile in Law
• 22:07 Key Takeaways and Advice
• 23:43 Conclusion

About Ondrej Dvorak

Ondřej is the co-founder of Linking Help, a nonprofit that mobilized legal aid for Ukrainian refugees using Scrum and Kanban to coordinate real-time support. It’s a powerful story of how agility can make a real difference in humanitarian crises—far beyond the domain of business. Andre’s work shows how Agile thinking can help even the most traditional sectors become more humane, responsive, and resilient.

You can follow Ondřej on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ondrej-dvorak-agile/

Visit us at https://www.ouragiletales.com/about