In this episode of In with the Old, host Dr. Tim Howe talks with Dr. J. Daniel Hays, senior professor of Old Testament at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. They discuss his book From Every People and Nation: A Biblical Theology of Race. Dr. Hays starts with his own path to the Old Testament. It began with his father's class on the prophets, and it continued through Hebrew studies and missionary years in Ethiopia. He then tells how an invitation to give a conference paper on the Kushites turned into a book. He found the Cushites mentioned 54 times in Scripture, yet they are rarely covered in commentaries or on Bible maps. The conversation then takes up several questions:

• The "curse of Ham":

Dr. Hays walks through Genesis 9 and shows that the curse falls on Canaan, not on Ham or on Black Africans. He explains how the misreading was used to defend slavery in America and why it lingered into the 20th century.

• The Table of Nations:

In Genesis 10, the names include people, cities and nations. They are grouped by geopolitics, not by race.

• The Cushites:

The kingdom lay south of Egypt, in what is now northern Sudan, and it is not modern Ethiopia. Cushites appear throughout Scripture. They include Moses' wife, a soldier in David's army, Ebed-Melech, who rescues Jeremiah, and the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8.

• Interracial marriage:

God sides with Moses against Miriam and Aaron over his Kushite wife. Dr. Hays explains that the later biblical bans on intermarriage are about faith, not ethnicity. He also shares a personal story about a friend's family.

• God's plan for the nations:

Dr. Hays traces the theme from Babel and Genesis 12 through the prophets, Pentecost and Romans 11. It ends in Revelation, where people from every nation are united around the throne.

• Practical steps for churches today:

He urges listeners to see one another as family and to listen across ethnic lines. He suggests shared services and pulpit exchanges, joint projects and church plants, and multiethnic staff where it fits the community.

Time breakdown

• 0:00

Welcome and guest introduction

• 0:54

What drew Dr. Hays to the Old Testament

• 3:14

The story behind From Every People and Nation

• 6:44

The "curse of Ham" and how it was misused

• 12:01

Genesis 10 and the Table of Nations

• 16:36

Who the Cushites are and why they matter

• 25:23

Moses' Cushite wife and interracial marriage in Scripture

• 35:40

God's plan for the nations, from Genesis to Revelation

• 45:59

Building multiethnic communities today

• 54:03

Final thoughts and sign-off

Did people really live to be almost a thousand years old? In this Season 7 "Bizarre Stories" episode of In with the Old, Tim Howe looks at the ages of the patriarchs in Genesis 5 and Genesis 11. He reads both genealogies, then asks whether the ages should be taken literally and what they teach. The episode covers:

• Why death is the refrain of Genesis 5, and how long life can be read as a sign of God's grace.
• Enoch, and why walking with God matters more than how long you live.
• How the Sumerian King List compares to Genesis
• Context to determine if the ages are literal. Genesis 6:3, Jacob's conversation with Pharaoh in Genesis 47, and Moses at 120. Tim argues these show the text itself treats the ages as literal.
• A theory about how the pre-flood world may have supported longer lives, which Tim presents as speculative.
• What this means for us. Life is a gift from God, and Isaiah 65 shows the curse being reversed. In Christ, death does not get the final word.

Time breakdown

• 0:00 – Welcome and the question: how old were the patriarchs?
• 0:48 – Setting up Genesis 5:3–32 and Genesis 11:10–26
• 1:13 – Reading Genesis 5: Adam to Noah
• 3:19 – Reading Genesis 11: Shem to Terah
• 4:59 – Should we take these ages literally?
• 5:18 – Genesis 5 as a "reset" after the Garden
• 6:04 – Created to live with God: the tree of life and the warning in Genesis 2:17
• 8:02 – The refrain "and he died," and Victor Hamilton on length of days as grace
• 9:49 – Enoch walked with God: quality of life over length
• 10:58 – The ancient Near East and the Sumerian King List
• 13:05 – Is the Bible borrowing from it? Hartman and Wenham respond
• 17:11 – Genesis 6:3 and the 120-year limit
• 19:27 – The Hebrew word in Genesis 6:3 and Bruce Waltke's comments
• 20:57 – Jacob before Pharaoh (Genesis 47:7–10)
• 22:54 – From Abraham to Moses: the ages decline to 120
• 25:06 – The "generations" formula and why the text points to a literal reading
• 26:18 – How is it possible? A different pre-flood world
• 27:28 – The vapor canopy theory (Whitcomb and Morris)
• 29:38 – Lessons: God's blessing, worry, and the source of life
• 30:19 – Isaiah 65: the curse reversed
• 31:34 – Applying it: sin's consequences and union with Christ
• 33:31 – From the seed of hope in Enoch to the resurrection of Jesus
• 34:25 – Closing thoughts and the invitation to trust Christ
• 34:58 – Outro and sign-off

From Adam and Israel to the Church with Dr. Benjamin Gladd

Tim Howe sits down with Dr. Benjamin Gladd to discuss his book From Adam and Israel to the Church: A Biblical Theology of the People of God and trace the identity of God’s people from Genesis to the New Testament. The conversation centers on how the Bible presents humanity as image-bearers with prophetic, priestly, and kingly vocation, and why that framework helps explain Israel, Christ, and the church. They also dig into a major hermeneutical question: how Old Testament narrative signals meaning through patterns, contrasts, and connections rather than always stating conclusions directly.

Key topics

• In this episode, Dr. Ben Gladd explains why he thinks the people of God begin in the garden, not with Abraham, and how Genesis 1 to 3 sets the stage for the whole Bible.
• He unpacks the image of God as a threefold calling of prophet, priest, and king, with Adam and Eve tasked to rule, guard, cultivate, and transmit God’s word.
• Tim and Dr. Gladd discuss Eden as a temple-like space, including the mountain imagery, holy space, and the need to expand and protect sacred order.
• Dr. Gladd argues that the serpent’s entrance into Eden shows Adam and Eve failing in all three offices: kingly rule, priestly guarding, and prophetic condemnation.
• The conversation traces the move from Adam to Israel, especially through Jacob’s renaming as Israel, which Dr. Gladd reads primarily as a covenant and spiritual identity, not an ethnic marker.
• A major theme is the distinction between ethnic Israel and the believing remnant, illustrated through Achan, Caleb, and Rahab.
• Tim raises the broader Old Testament pattern of outsiders being included in God’s people, and Dr. Gladd emphasizes that this theme runs throughout the canon, not just in isolated cases.
• They turn to Jesus as the one who perfectly fulfills the offices of prophet, priest, and king and embodies the true people of God.
• Dr. Gladd explains that union with Christ becomes the way believers share in God’s people, both in the Old and New Testaments.
• The episode closes with practical encouragement to trace biblical allusions and intertextual connections as a way of reading Scripture more faithfully and seeing the Bible as one unified story.

Timestamps

00:00 - Introducing the book and the people of God theme
01:23 - Genesis 1 to 2 as the starting point for biblical theology
02:47 - Why the people of God begin in the garden, not with Abraham
05:56 - Prophet, priest, and king as Adam and Eve’s vocation
07:53 - Why the prophetic office is harder to see in Genesis
09:10 - Tim’s question on priesthood before the fall
11:03 - Serving, keeping, and expanding Eden’s sacred space
12:27 - The serpent as an unclean intruder in the garden
14:10 - Why Eden is incomplete, not sinful
17:52 - From Adam to Israel through covenant and continuity
18:20 - Jacob becomes Israel and a covenant identity begins
21:20 - Ethnic Israel versus the spiritual remnant
22:44 - Achan, Caleb, and Rahab as covenant contrasts
27:10 - The Bible’s repeated inclusion of outsiders
29:59 - Why narrative theology gets missed in some readings
33:14 - Jesus as the true image bearer and fulfillment of the offices
38:19 - Jesus’ priestly ministry in the Gospels
40:48 - Faith, belief, and trust in Yahweh and Jesus
45:30 - The church as prophet, priest, and king
49:24 - Why the larger biblical story makes Scripture feel personal
52:23 - Current projects and upcoming studies
54:34 - Final encouragement to trace New Testament allusions

Trees are not just scenery in the Bible—they are one of its most powerful ways of talking about life, wisdom, kingship, judgment, and hope. Dr. William Rusty Osborne shows how this overlooked image ties Genesis to Revelation and changes the way you read the Old Testament. Host Tim Howe and Dr. Osborne trace the story from the garden’s two trees to the wisdom language of Proverbs and Psalms, then into the prophets, where kings and kingdoms are pictured as towering cedars, fragile stumps, and new shoots. Along the way, you’ll hear why the tree of life matters so much, how “shade” and “fruit” become loaded biblical symbols, and why Isaiah’s stump of Jesse and Jeremiah’s righteous branch point to a coming Messiah.

You’ll discover:

• Why Adam and Eve’s choice was really about wisdom, life, and trust
• How Psalm 1 turns a righteous person into a planted tree
• Why prophets use trees to describe royal power, pride, and collapse
• What Ezekiel’s cedar imagery reveals about judgment and restoration
• How the Bible’s final tree-of-life scene reframes healing, worship, and the presence of God

This episode also explores the limits of metaphor without flattening the text, including careful discussion of the cross, the language of being “hanged on a tree,” and how New Testament writers continue the Bible’s tree imagery in Jesus’ teaching, John’s vine-and-branches language, Romans 11, and Revelation 22.If you want a deeper grasp of the Bible’s connected storyline, or you’ve ever wondered why trees show up everywhere from Eden to the New Jerusalem, this conversation will sharpen your reading and enrich your faith.

Dr. William Rusty Osborne

is a professor of biblical and theological studies at College of the Ozarks in Missouri. His research focuses on Old Testament hermeneutics, Ezekiel, divine blessing, and biblical metaphor theory, and he is author and co-editor of several books, including the forthcoming Biblical Tree Imagery in Natural and Human Contexts: A Planting of the Lord.

Timestamps

00:00 — Introduction to Dr. William Rusty Osborne and the theme of trees in Scripture
01:31 — Why trees matter across the biblical storyline
04:08 — Genesis, the garden, and humanity’s relation to creation
05:49 — Why God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
07:09 — Wisdom, temptation, and the tree of life
10:31 — The tree of life as sustaining life in God’s presence
11:24 — Tree-of-life imagery in Proverbs and the Psalms
13:32 — Trees as sources of life, resources, and royal garden imagery
18:25 — Jotham’s fable in Judges 9 and trees as political metaphor
21:06 — Psalm 1 and the righteous person as a planted tree
24:48 — Psalm 52 and Psalm 92 on flourishing like a tree
27:55 — Metaphor, wisdom, and royal tree imagery in the prophets
29:44 — Ezekiel 31 and the downfall of Assyria as a towering cedar
34:15 — Ezekiel 17 and the promise of a restored royal branch
37:35 — Isaiah 11 and the shoot from the stump of Jesse
41:50 — Jeremiah 33 and the righteous branch for David
43:26 — Tree imagery in Jesus’ teaching and the New Testament
46:34 — Romans 11, grafting, and Jew-Gentile unity
47:03 — Why Peter’s “tree” language is difficult to connect directly to the Old Testament motif
49:56 — The symbolic reversal of life imagery into curse and shame in the cross
53:47 — Revelation 22 and the return of the tree of life
57:05 — Dr. Osborne’s current projects on Ezekiel, biblical tree imagery, and Jeremiah

Was God punishing David for a sin God himself caused? 2 Samuel 24 is one of the strangest and most troubling stories in the Old Testament, and this episode pulls it apart piece by piece to show why it is actually a story about pride, mercy, and atonement. Tim Howe takes you into David’s military census, the devastating plague that follows, and the shocking reason this judgment lands so hard. You’ll see why David’s choice matters, why Joab’s warning is more important than it first appears, and how the law of Deuteronomy 17 and Exodus 30 reveals the real offense behind the census. You’ll discover:

• why the text says God was angry with Israel before David ever counted the troops
• how to understand the language of God “stirring up” David without making God the author of sin
• why the parallel account in 1 Chronicles raises the question of Satan, and how that fits the bigger biblical picture
• how David’s census echoes Pharaoh and violates the logic of covenant kingship
• why the threshing floor of Araunah matters so much, and how David’s refusal to offer God something that “costs nothing” marks a turning point in his repentance

This episode also shows why the plague is not random punishment, but a severe mercy that exposes hidden pride before it can do even greater damage. Rather than treating the story like a theological trap, Tim shows how it points to a King who never placed himself above the law, never exploited his people, and always carried their burden. If you have ever struggled with the hard sayings of the Old Testament, this is essential listening. It will give you a clearer view of David, a deeper appreciation for God’s justice, and a far greater awe for the One who truly lays down his life for his sheep. Perfect for anyone who wants to understand the Old Testament more deeply, wrestle honestly with difficult passages, and see how this bizarre story points forward to Christ.

Timestamps

00:00 - Why David’s census is such a bizarre story
00:56 - Setting the context at the height of David’s reign
01:23 - Reading 2 Samuel 24
06:02 - David’s mighty men and the end of the major threats
06:51 - Why the text says God was angry with Israel
08:26 - Did God cause David to sin?
08:56 - Why 1 Chronicles says Satan incited David
10:46 - What the Hebrew word “adversary” may mean
12:13 - Could a foreign enemy have triggered David’s pride?
13:40 - Why Israel’s king should live under a different standard
15:57 - Deuteronomy 17 and the law for a true king
17:55 - Why the census was such an egregious sin
18:53 - Counting as an act that mimics God’s sovereignty
19:49 - David’s sin compared to Pharaoh’s
20:47 - The ignored ransom procedure in Exodus 30
22:38 - Why David’s action put the whole nation at risk
23:37 - Why God gave David three choices
24:33 - The curses echo Deuteronomy 28
25:30 - Why David chose the option that spared him personally
26:27 - The plague spreads from Dan to Beersheba
27:25 - David finally identifies with the suffering sheep
28:23 - Why David insists on paying full price for the threshing floor
29:52 - What David’s repentance now looks like
30:21 - Why exposing sin was itself an act of mercy
31:47 - How God guided David into full repentance
32:18 - God’s atonement limits the damage
33:14 - Lessons on humility, stewardship, and leadership
34:15 - Sin’s consequences spill onto other people
35:07 - The threshing floor and the future temple site
35:36 - David’s failure contrasted with the Good Shepherd
36:33 - The sacrifice points forward to Christ
36:59 - Gratitude for God’s mercy toward David
37:41 - Closing thoughts and next episode teaser

This episode examines one of the Old Testament’s most puzzling scenes from 2 Kings 2:23-25 and asks what really happened at Bethel. Tim Howe walks through the historical context, the Hebrew language, and the covenant background to show why this story is more than a simple tale of an angry prophet and a bear attack. The result is a sharper picture of Elisha’s role, Israel’s idolatry, and how God’s judgment and mercy work together. In this episode, Tim Howe explains why the phrase translated “small boys” likely refers to older youths or young men, not little children. He also connects the insult to Bethel’s idolatrous history, Elisha’s prophetic authority, and the covenant warnings in Leviticus 26.

Key topics

• Tim frames 2 Kings 2:23-25 as part of a larger sequence proving that the spirit of Elijah now rests on Elisha.
• Bethel is identified as a center of pagan worship established under Jeroboam, which gives the confrontation a strong idolatry context.
• The phrase translated “small boys” is argued to be flexible Hebrew wording that can describe teens, young adults, or military-age men.
• Tim cites examples from to show the phrase does not necessarily mean little children.
• The group’s mockery is interpreted as intentional and organized, not a random insult from passing children.
• “Go up, baldy” is explored as a possible taunt about Elisha’s succession to Elijah, his legitimacy, and even a challenge to worship at Bethel’s false altar.
• The curse is presented as a covenant act, not a personal outburst, with Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 in the background.
• Tim emphasizes that prophetic curses in Scripture function as warnings meant to call people back to repentance.
• The bear attack is treated as a small covenant judgment that previews the greater discipline Israel would eventually face for persistent idolatry.
• The episode closes by applying the passage to Christians today, focusing on blessing rather than cursing, Christ bearing the curse for sin, and the call to reconciliation.

(00:00) Why Elisha, boys, and bears is such a bizarre Bible story

(00:30) Reading 2 Kings 2:23-25 and setting up the interpretive questions

(01:25) Elijah’s departure and Elisha’s succession as the key backdrop

(02:51) Why this passage belongs to a larger three-part confirmation of Elisha’s authority

(04:16) Bethel as a center of idolatry and false worship in Israel

(05:33) Why “small boys” may be a misleading translation

(06:56) David, Absalom, and other examples showing the Hebrew can mean older youths

(08:24) The importance of 1 Kings 20 for understanding the same Hebrew phrase

(09:48) Solomon calling himself a “little child” despite being king

(10:44) Why the group likely acted intentionally and not like random children

(11:13) Why Elisha is probably not an elderly man in the scene

(12:39) What “go up” might mean in the boys’ taunt

(14:29) A stronger reading of the insult as a challenge to worship at Bethel

(16:25) Why “baldy” may be a jab at Elisha’s legitimacy as Elijah’s successor

(18:50) Why the curse is about covenant judgment, not personal irritation

(20:16) How Leviticus 26 frames wild animals as covenant discipline

(22:38) Whether the bears mauled, wounded, or killed

(23:35) Why an undeserved curse does not stand apart from God’s judgment

(24:42) How the story warns against mocking God’s representative and message

(25:39) Why the New Testament does not authorize Christians to curse people

(26:36) Jesus taking the curse of sin upon himself

(27:34) The ministry of reconciliation and the hope of life instead of judgment

(28:32) Final takeaway: this is about idolatry, covenant warning, and God’s protection of his servants

In this conversation with host Tim Howe, Dr. Gary Schnittjer unpacks his book Connected: How Scripture Guides the Study of Scripture and explains why many modern Bible study methods start in the wrong place. Instead of building artificial bridges to get to the text, he argues that the Bible itself gives us the pattern for reading it well, because the biblical writers were constantly reading, interpreting, and building on what came

before.

Discover how Jesus reads Scripture in Mark 12, Luke 4, and Matthew 28, and why those passages are not random proof texts but carefully woven connections that reveal the shape of the whole story. From the burning bush to Isaiah’s Jubilee language to the Great Commission’s echo of Emmanuel, Schnittjer shows how the Old Testament is alive in the New and how Jesus models a deeply connected way of reading.We also explore the Old Testament’s own use of earlier revelation, why progressive revelation is not a modern invention but an organic feature of the Bible itself. It’s a valuable listen for Bible readers, teachers, students, and anyone eager to rediscover the unity, beauty, and authority of God’s Word.

Gary Schnittjer is Distinguished Professor of Old Testament at Cairn Theological Seminary and the author of The Torah Story, The Old Testament Use of the Old Testament, and Connected: How Scripture Guides the Study of Scripture. You can find the book here.

00:00 — Welcome and introduction to Gary Schnittjer and Connected

01:11 — Why study the Bible through the Bible’s own teaching?

05:41 — Scripture as an interconnected story, not isolated books

07:48 — Mark 12: Jesus, the Sadducees, and the resurrection

12:31 — Luke 4: Jesus’ reading of Isaiah and the meaning of Jubilee

18:33 — Jesus’ formation in Scripture and the Old Testament as his Bible

21:46 — Matthew 28: The Great Commission and Matthew’s literary bookends

28:24 — How the Old Testament interprets earlier Old Testament revelation

35:59 — Can readers today interpret Scripture as the biblical authors did?

38:09 — How to see Christ in the Old Testament without forcing him into every verse

43:20 — Reading and rereading Scripture: Jonah, Nineveh, and God’s grace

47:54 — Practical encouragement for new Bible readers

50:02 — Gary’s upcoming book, The Verses We Hate

52:14 — Closing thanks and farewell

In this episode of In with the Old, host Tim Howe talks with Dr. Patrick Schreiner, professor of New Testament and Biblical Theology at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, about his book The Four Senses of Scripture: Learning from Ancient Ways of Reading the Bible. They explore why Scripture should be read differently from other books, how divine authorship shapes interpretation, and why the church has historically recognized multiple senses of meaning in the Bible. The conversation focuses on the relationship between the literal sense and spiritual interpretation, with attention to Old Testament examples, New Testament usage, and the risks of subjective readings. It is especially useful for readers who want a more canonical, Christ-centered way of reading Scripture without abandoning historical context.

You can purchase the book at https://www.amazon.com/Four-Senses-Scripture-Learning-Ancient/dp/1540968790.

Key topics

• Why the Bible is unlike any other book because it has both human authors and a divine author
• Inspiration, inerrancy, and why dual authorship matters for interpretation
• How the grammatical-historical method compares with the older fourfold sense of Scripture
• The quadriga (four senses): literal (grammatical-historical), allegorical (Christological), tropological (moral), and anagogical (eschatological)
• Examples including John’s signs, Jesus turning water into wine, the feeding of the five thousand, and circumcision of the heart
• How Scripture often teaches readers how to read Scripture
• How modern readers can recognize spiritual meaning without claiming inspiration themselves
• Canon, rereading, and whether the Old Testament should be approached differently after Christ has been revealed
• The dangers of spiritual readings that dismiss the literal or ethical force of the text
• Guardrails for spiritual interpretation: do not contradict the literal sense, look for correspondence, read for canonical volume, and trace escalation

Timestamps

0:00 — Welcome and Introduction

0:33 — Introducing The Four Senses of Scripture

1:08 — Divine and Human Authorship of Scripture

5:13 — What Is the Fourfold Sense?

13:00 — Can We Read Scripture Spiritually Today?

16:21 — The Old Testament’s Use of the Old Testament

19:34 — Moving from Literal Meaning to Spiritual Meaning

25:17 — Christ, Canon, and the Meaning of Words

29:32 — First Readings, Rereadings, and Progressive Revelation

35:50 — Why Spiritual Reading Must Not Dismiss the Literal Sense

43:13 — When Symbols Help—and When a Tree Is Just a Tree

46:30 — Holding Canonical Reading and Historical Development Together

51:23 — John’s Gospel and the Depth of Biblical Symbolism

53:46 — Four Guardrails for Reading the Spiritual Sense

56:04 — Confidence, Certainty, and Canonical Interpretation

61:05 — Final Reflections

63:16 — Closing and Farewell