What if your identity has slowly become tied to your success?

For many Christian artists, songwriters, and producers — music becomes more than just a calling. It becomes a place to find belonging, approval, and worth. But what happens when success doesn’t come… or when it does and still doesn’t satisfy?

In this conversation, Sam Hart sits down with Bill Yuhasz from Known Legacy to talk about identity, healing, and learning to create from who you already are — not for what you hope to become.

They explore how men especially can struggle with performance-based identity, why our worth often becomes tied to our work, and how God invites us into a deeper place of belonging that isn’t dependent on platform, success, or recognition.

This episode is about doing music from identity — not for it.

• Why many artists unknowingly perform for belonging
• The difference between identity and calling
• How success can become a substitute for love and acceptance
• Healing the wounds that drive performance-based identity
• Learning to create from who you already are in Christ
• Why men often struggle to name emotions and vulnerability
• Finding worth beyond platform, recognition, or achievement
• Creating from identity instead of chasing validation

Website: https://knownlegacy.org Book: https://knownlegacy.org/more-than-you Known Legacy Podcast: https://knownlegacy.org/podcasts

Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker

Stacey Willbur is a Nashville publishing veteran who has spent over 25 years championing artists and songwriters across both Christian and country music — with credits spanning Chris Tomlin, Kari Jobe, Mandisa, Chris Stapleton, John Paul White of the Civil Wars, and many more. Now serving as Head of Publishing at TIM Publishing alongside Chris Tomlin and Jason Ingram, she's still as passionate about a great song as the day she arrived in Nashville with no money and no connections.

In this conversation, Stacey opens up about what it really takes to stay unjaded in a creative industry — and why the secret has less to do with success and more to do with keeping your heart in the right place.

Follow Stacey Willbur on IG: https://www.instagram.com/staceywillbur

💿 Follow Christian Music Maker on IG: https://www.instagram.com/timpublishing

🎙️ Follow Christian Music Maker on IG: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker

🎙️ Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.com

🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClpxaPIm0dcJ01Ma5VsHCqw

Thomas Toner is a Nashville-based producer and songwriter best known for his decade-long collaboration with Jelly Roll. In this conversation, Thomas gets honest about the business side of producing, how AI is reshaping his workflow, and why he walked away from a thriving career to return to Christian music.

• The artist-producer relationship: chemistry, trust, and knowing your role
• What producers are actually worth — and how to negotiate for it
• Master splits, recoupment, and catalog organization
• Where AI fits (and where it doesn't) in modern music production
• Faith, fulfillment, and the decision to start over
• His new producer presets via STL Tones Control Hub

[00:00] Intro

[01:43] Early influences: Travis Barker, Blink-182, and stealing his sisters' CDs

[07:00] First job in Christian music at 19

[09:50] Meeting Jelly Roll

[12:10] Can you make Christian music without believing it?

[22:38] What a decade with Jelly Roll taught him about the artist-producer relationship

[31:00] The "Walmart Rick Rubin" production philosophy

[35:35] What separates good producers from great ones

[38:05] What artists most misunderstand about producers

[43:23] Master splits, recoupment, and why the old model is broken

[55:18] Catalog admin and the revenue streams most producers are missing

[59:44] AI: tool, threat, or noise?

[01:23:00] What AI can never replicate in production

[01:35:42] What integrity looks like in this industry

[01:39:31] The hardest lessons from 15 years in the business

[01:44:56] Why he returned to Christian music

[01:51:28] His new STL Tones / Control Hub plugin presets

[01:59:37] "If your kids described your career one day, what would you hope they say?"

🎛️ Thomas Toner's Producer Presets — STL Tones Control Hub 👉 https://www.stltones.com/products/controlhub-plugin

📱 Follow Thomas Toner on IG: https://www.instagram.com/stonebabysounds

🎙️ Follow Christian Music Maker on IG: https://www.instagram.com/christian.music.maker

🎙️ Website: https://www.christianmusicmaker.com

🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClpxaPIm0dcJ01Ma5VsHCqw

Christian Music Maker is a podcast about the people, process, and purpose behind music made for something bigger. Subscribe wherever you listen.