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The HRBP model is 30 years old. Most organizations changed the title without changing the work — service logic stayed, compliance logic stayed. PwC research shows only 60% of CEOs call their CHRO highly effective, despite years of transformation investment. The capability problem is real. But it's downstream of a design problem most organizations keep skipping.

This episode names what's actually broken and builds a frame for what fixes it. Jackson, Scott, and guest Phil Kirshner make the case for the Chief of Work — designed to own what no current role does: the combined output of how work is actually designed and experienced.

What You'll Learn

• You can put excellent people in a broken role and still get broken outcomes.
• HR has two fundamentally different jobs — run the business and change the business — and giving both to the same function guarantees one never gets done.
• IT, HR, and real estate each optimize their own lane; the combined output of all three has no owner, and that accountability gap has a measurable cost.
• Freeing up calendar time through AI doesn't produce strategic capability — it produces more of the same kind of work without design changes.
• The Chief of Work only works if it sits outside the functions it's reading — independence isn't a preference, it's the design requirement.

Key Quotes

"You can put excellent people into a role structurally designed to produce a service outcome, and they will produce a service outcome."

"I want to do it with you, not to you."

Sources for Statistics Cited

• 60% of CEOs describe their CHRO as highly effective — PwC Pulse Survey, 2024
• Employee engagement cited as dropping, — Gallup Global Workplace
• 41% of CHROs want greater depth in data analytics — Mercer 2024
• 39% of HR functions have adopted AI — SHRM 2026
• Workers using AI tools report 346% increase in time on certain tasks — NBER/Duke

Connect with Phil Kirschner

• LinkedIn
• Walk the Work Line

Because Jackson Would Want You to Have This

• "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." — The Princess Bride (1987)

Support the show

If this episode landed, the next move is yours.

Coaching is where it closes fastest — Jackson has developed CHROs from both sides of the table, as their leader and as their coach. The CHRO Ascent Academy, CHRO Chronicles, and the best-selling Substack are there too.

All at mytalentsherpa.com.

In private equity: Propulsion AI surfaces workforce risk before the close and translates strategy into individual accountability after it. Before AI automation - drive outcome clarity with digital teammates to do the work fast and at scale.

All at getpropulsion.ai.