What actually happens to the brain when someone works in a toxic environment—and why is it so hard to recover? In this episode of Frog Talk, host Nader Safinya sits down with Ursula Pottinga, an internationally recognized leadership coach and neuroscience expert, to unpack how toxic workplace dynamics literally rewire cognition, behavior, and emotional regulation. Ursula explains why narcissistic behavior is often misunderstood, how psychological safety disappears long before people speak up, and why high-performing professionals slowly lose confidence, creativity, and focus under toxic leadership. Together, they explore relational trauma, people-pleasing versus fawning, and what leaders must understand if they want teams to thrive instead of silently checking out.

Guest Introduction:

Ursula Pottinga is a certified executive coach, neuroscience-based leadership expert, and co-founder of Be Above Leadership. With over 25 years of professional coaching experience and more than three decades leading workshops across Europe, North America, and Asia, Ursula specializes in relational trauma, toxic workplace dynamics, and embodied leadership change. She helps leaders understand the brain as a user’s manual for sustainable performance, safety, and growth.

Key Takeaways:

• Toxic environments don’t just feel bad—they reprogram the brain, reducing focus, confidence, and emotional regulation.
• Narcissistic behavior is widely misunderstood and often excused as “strong leadership,” masking real harm.
• Psychological safety is the foundation of creativity, engagement, and performance—and it disappears fast in toxic systems.
• People-pleasing and “fawning” are trauma responses, not personality flaws.
• Toxic behavior can come from any level of an organization, but leadership position amplifies its impact.
• Healing requires education, time, and often professional support—not just “moving on.”

Chapter Markers:

0:00 Frog Talk intro

0:22 Introducing Ursula Pottinga

1:17 Toxic workplaces and the neuroscience of behavior

1:39 What “toxic” really means

2:28 Narcissism and why it’s misunderstood

3:16 How toxic environments rewire the brain

4:18 Stress, instability, and loss of cognitive function

6:08 Narcissistic tendencies vs. narcissism

7:03 Behavior impact over diagnosis

8:01 Toxicity beyond leadership roles

9:21 The “rotten stew” metaphor

12:14 Loss of safety and credibility

12:55 Why people stop speaking up

13:33 “I don’t want to get in trouble” thinking

14:22 Authenticity and emotional suppression

18:03 “It’s not your fault” — reframing self-blame

19:00 Why toxic systems perpetuate themselves

20:11 Why HR often feels unsafe

22:53 Education as the first step

24:15 Can narcissistic leaders change?

26:55 Why some leaders cannot be coached

30:32 Neuroscience of embodied change

33:19 The body’s role in transformation

End: Closing reflections

Keywords:

Frog Talk podcast, Nader Safinya, Ursula Pottinga, toxic workplaces, leadership neuroscience, relational trauma, narcissistic leadership, psychological safety, workplace culture, embodied leadership, organizational health, emotional regulation, people-pleasing, fawning response