Will Nancy Drew, the Hardy Boys, Encyclopedia Brown, or any of the other fictional teen sleuths ever grow up? We spoke with Tom Ryan, whose novel We Had a Hunch throws adult versions of kid detectives into several harrowing grown-up situations, from hunting a serial killer to the slow-dawning realization that they’ve become middle-aged.

Plus: are contemporary works of art too literal? It’s no fun if a novel or a movie tells to your face its theme and meaning. That’s the message of our movie, Movies Should Not Tell You Their Meaning.

We Had a Hunch by Tom Ryan is out now.

Works Cited this episode:

Nancy Drew mysteries, Franklin W. Dixon/the Stratemeyer Syndicate

Hardy Boys mysteries, Franklin W. Dixon/the Stratemeyer Syndicate

The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, Agatha Christie

Keep This to Yourself, Tom Ryan

The Treasure Hunters Club, Tom Ryan

Murder, She Wrote, created by Peter S. Fischer, Richard Levinson, and

The Silence of the Lambs, dir. Jonathan Demme

“The New Literalism Plaguing Today’s Biggest Movies,” Namwali Serpell, The New Yorker

Anora, dir. Sean Baker

Cinderella, dir. Wilfred Jackson, Hamilton Luske, and Clyde Geronimi

Mad Men, created by Matthew Weiner

The Brutalist, dir. Brady Corbet

Invisible Man, Ralph Ellison

The Trial, Franz Kafka

Eradication, Jonathan Miles

The Housemaid, Frieda McFadden

Valley of the Dolls, Jacqueline Susann

The Daydreaming Boy, Micheline Aharonian Marcom

Outbreak, dir. Wolfgang Peterson

Friends, created by David Crane and Marta Kaufman

Field of Dreams, dir. Phil Alden Robinson

Shoeless Joe, W.P. Kinsella

Mikey and Nicky, dir. Elaine May

The Parker novels, Richard Stark

Tender is the Flesh, Agustina Bazterrica

The Jungle, Upton Sinclair

Sister Carrie, Theodore Dreiser

We have too many reviews and not enough interpretive criticism. At least, that’s what Nathan says, and it seems to hold water. A true critique engages your intellect and raises questions, while a review just says whether you should watch that movie/read that book/listen to that podcast.

In our second segment, we engage with Ivy Pochoda’s latest novel, Ecstasy, which itself engages with the classical play The Bacchae. We’re not saying a cult of drunken women who kill the men would solve all our problems, but maybe it’s a start.

Ecstasy by Ivy Pochoda is available now

Works cited this episode:

I Know What You Did Last Summer, dir. Jim Gillespie Return of the Jedi, dir. Richard Marquand The Empire Strikes Back, dir. Irvin KershnerFargo, dir. Joel Cohen Siskel & Ebert “Fargo Forum: Minnesota, Masculinity, Mike Yanagita, and more,” Noel Murray, Keith Phipps, Nathan Rabin, Tasha Robinson, Matt Singer, Scott Tobias, The Dissolve “Against Interpretation,” Susan Sontag The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald “In Defense of the Traditional Review,” Richard Brody, The New Yorker Volcano, dir. Mick Jackson “It Lavas L.A.,” Richard Corliss, TIME Capital, Karl Mark The Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. Tolkien Wonder Valley, Ivy Pochoda Sing Her Down, Ivy Pochoda Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen The Bacchae, Euripides Demon Copperhead, Barbara Kingsolver David Copperfield, Charles Dickens Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov Liar Liar, dir. Tom Shadyac 30 Rock, created by Tina Fey

Our hosts have ideas about what sort of books should have been included on the Voyager spacecraft, to support its heartwarming mission of spreading humanity to the stars. Would you have just sent the aliens your favorite book? Because maybe they don’t have the context to understand what a “Da Vinci Code” even is. And speaking of putting a lot of pressure on a book, TV creator Michael Schur’s How to Be Perfect put that pressure on itself. Philosophical ethics never sounded so good.

How to Be Perfect by Michael Schur

Works cited this episode:

The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, William Shakespeare Bridgerton series, Julia Quinn Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk Twilight, Stephenie Meyer The Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. Tolkien The Shawshank Redemption, Frank Darabont To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee The Ride of the Valkyries, Richard Wagner “Queen of the Night,” The Magic Flute, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart “Johnny B. Goode,” Chuck Berry The Three-Body Problem, CIxin Liu Contact, Carl Sagan The Art of War, Sun Tzu Silo, created by Graham Yost Fox in Socks, Dr. Seuss The Cat in the Hat, Dr. Seuss Green Eggs and Ham, Dr. Seuss Galaxy Quest, dir. Dean Parisot The Tragedy of King Lear, William Shakespeare The Office, developed by Greg Daniels Parks and Recreation, created by Greg Daniels and Michael Schur The Good Place, created by Michael Schur The Apology of Socrates, Plato Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure, dir. Ed Solomon The Simpsons and Philosophy, William Irwin, Mark T. Conrad, Aeon J. Skoble, editors Harry Potter and Philosophy: If Aristotle Ran Hogwarts, David Baggett, Shawn E. Klein, William Irwin, editors The Legend of Zelda and Philosophy, Luke Cuddy, editor Jimmy Buffett and Philosophy, Erin McKenna, Scott L. Pratt, editors Radiohead and Philosophy, Brandon W. Forbes, George A. Reisch, editors Chicken Soup for the Soul, Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig