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The Twenty One Clear Podcast

The Twenty One Clear Podcast

De : Adam Hatcher
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The benefits of working with family include mutual trust, a shared long-term outlook, and quick decision making. However, your inner family business relationships can also cause chaos for the company and family. What can you do? Join us as we explore chaos proofing your family business so you can build a great company with a strong family around it. 21clear.com© 2025 Twenty One Clear Economie
Épisodes
  • Tony Simmons - Part 1: "Do Not Plan Your Life On It"

    Tony Simmons - Part 1: "Do Not Plan Your Life On It"
    Oct 2 2026

    For 25 years, Tony Simmons sold construction cranes. Then a phone call brought him home to Avery Island, Louisiana, and into McIlhenny Company, his family's company and the maker of Tabasco, where he became the seventh family CEO.

    In part one of our three-part conversation, Tony walks me through the basics of a 158-year-old family company, from Edmund McIlhenny's start as a destitute banker after the Civil War to a family home kept for 208 years.

    Then we turn to his own path: being told not to plan his life on joining the business, a board seat he never asked for, 12 years as his cousin Paul's understudy, and why he thought about the job the way a physician does: First, do no harm.

    21C Links

    • Twenty One Clear website: https://www.21clear.com?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-15-do-not-plan-your-life-on-it&utm_content=show-notes
    • Adam Hatcher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcher
    • Subscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/
    • Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/fIBHaZJ5oEk


    Bumper Music
    Still Hot
    by Nic D, Connor Price
    (c) Lossless, 2023

    Episode Produced By
    https://snapmarket.co

    Chapter Timestamps
    (00:00) Cold Open: One Red Thing, a Million Red Things
    (00:15) Welcome and Introduction: Meet Tony Simmons
    (02:44) McIlhenny Company by the Numbers
    (04:34) Edmund McIlhenny, From Destitute Banker to Founder
    (06:35) Avery Island, McIlhenny Company and Tabasco
    (10:15) "Don't Plan Your Life On It"
    (12:16) Twenty-Five Years in Cranes
    (15:16) A Surprise Board Seat and 12 Years as an Understudy
    (17:29) What an Outside Career Teaches
    (19:10) The Seventh Family CEO: First, Do No Harm
    (21:15) The Burlesque Opera of Tabasco
    (25:34) Drift and the Long Horizon
    (26:31) Coming Up in Parts Two and Three
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    28 min
  • The Company and Your Inner-Family Business: Norm Smallwood interviews Adam Hatcher

    The Company and Your Inner-Family Business: Norm Smallwood interviews Adam Hatcher
    Aug 27 2026
    The script flips. After two episodes of Adam interviewing Norm Smallwood — co-founder of The RBL Group and Adam's collaborator in restructuring his own family's company — Norm turns the tables and interviews Adam. They cover why Adam started Twenty One Clear, the inner family business hiding inside every family company, why succession is nothing like a baton handoff, and the two words Adam gives every family that works together: Do Not Drift. The episode closes with an impromptu case study from Norm's own consulting work, where an HR leadership succession project took a sudden inner family business turn.21C linksTwenty One Clear website: https://www.21clear.com?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-14-the-company-and-your-inner-family-business&utm_content=show-notesAdam Hatcher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcher?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-14-the-company-and-your-inner-family-business&utm_content=show-notesSubscribe to the Twenty One Clear newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ep-14-the-company-and-your-inner-family-business&utm_content=show-notesThe RBL Group (Norm Smallwood): https://www.rbl.net/?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-14-the-company-and-your-inner-family-business&utm_content=show-notesEpisode 12, Four Stages of Leadership, Part 1: https://21clear.transistor.fm/episodes/four-stages-of-leadership-part-1-stages-1-3?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-14-the-company-and-your-inner-family-business&utm_content=show-notesEpisode 13, Four Stages of Leadership, Part 2: https://21clear.transistor.fm/episodes/four-stages-of-leadership-part-2-stage-4-and-the-stages-importance?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-14-the-company-and-your-inner-family-business&utm_content=show-notesBumper music: "Still Hot" by Nic D, Connor Price © Lossless, 2023Episode produced by: https://snapmarket.coChapters[00:00] Welcome and Setup — Adam flips the script: after two episodes interviewing Norm Smallwood, Norm interviews him[02:29] What Makes a Great Family Company — Full valuation for your size and industry, plus real impact, at any scale[03:47] Why "Twenty One Clear" — A 70-year-old family company, and mixing the unconditional with the conditional[07:59] The Question Behind the Firm — Why some family companies seem chaos proof and others lose value and relationships[09:30] Inside "Chaos Proof Your Business" — Who the book is for and the question it wrestles with[11:59] The Inner Family Business — One box inside another, and what the Chick-fil-A thought experiment reveals[13:51] The Hardest Management Job on Earth — Why a family exit is fundamentally different from any other departure[15:15] Norm's Case Study — A chairman's succession plan for a son who never wanted the job[17:38] Succession Is Not a Baton Handoff — Two archers, 50 yards apart, and why the arrows must meet mid-air[18:49] Do Not Drift — The one concept Adam gives every family company[19:33] The Family Is a System — How one raise reaches every family member, inside the company and out[21:41] The Headlines Exercise — Surfacing unsaid expectations before they walk into the boardroom[23:24] Twenty One Clear in Five Years — The roadmap families need and the chaos proof framework[26:31] Why a Template Is Not a Facilitator — What AI can draft and what it can never do in a family meeting[28:53] Final Advice — Do Not Drift, and open the lens as wide as you can[30:54] The Third Word — What Adam's sister and the family council gave back to the company[33:24] Closing — Continue to write your story
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    35 min
  • Four Stages of Leadership - Part 2: Stage 4 and the Stages' Importance

    Four Stages of Leadership - Part 2: Stage 4 and the Stages' Importance
    Jul 30 2026

    Part two of Adam's conversation with Norm Smallwood, co-founder of The RBL Group, picking up where Episode 12 left off. Norm and Adam move into stage four, otherwise known as "power", of Norm's four-stage leadership model. They then work through what it costs a family business when people are operating below the stage their role requires, why self-diagnosis of your own stage almost never works, and what it looks like to build a great career and a great company without ever needing to become stage four yourself.

    21C links

    • Website: https://www.21clear.com?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notes
    • Adam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamhatcher?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notes
    • Newsletter: https://21clear.substack.com/?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notes
    • The RBL Group (Norm Smallwood): https://www.rbl.net/?utm_source=twenty-one-clear&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=ep-13-four-stages-of-leadership-part-2&utm_content=show-notes
    • Episode 12, Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-twenty-one-clear-podcast/id1811403547
    • Ask Adam for Norm's Four Stages assessment. Email: adam.hatcher@21clear.com

    Bumper music: "Still Hot" by Nic D, Connor Price © Lossless, 2023

    Episode produced by: https://snapmarket.co

    Chapters
    [00:00] Welcome and Recap
    [03:09] Naming Stage Four
    [06:23] When Stage Fours Collide
    [08:53] You Can't See Your Own Stage
    [13:12] The Real Cost Isn't Bob's
    [16:15] Succeeding at Every Stage but One
    [17:32] What Makes a "Sue"
    [20:45] What Buyers Are Actually Buying
    [23:28] Quality of Leadership as a Line Item
    [25:22] Willie G. Davidson and "Sounded Like a Harley"
    [26:00] Julian Van Winkle and Making It "Taste Like Pappy"
    [28:35] You Don't Have to Be Stage Four to Win
    [29:45] Where to find Norm's four-stages assessment and how to reach Adam
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    32 min
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