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Milo Cavic looks back at his younger self and sees an athlete he wouldn’t necessarily enjoy coaching: self-centered, fiercely invested in success, and determined to learn things the hard way.

The Olympic medalist joins Chris to discuss how he understands that athlete differently today, what he needed from Dave Salo and Mike Bottom, and why believing in your training matters. He explains why his own late-career coaching change makes him sympathetic to athletes who choose to leave successful environments.

They also discuss the balance between strong training partners and individual attention, why practice times can become an emotional trap, and the tension between team coaches and outside specialists. Milo shares how he approaches that relationship through Swim with Milo—and Chris offers his perspective on how coaches value their work.

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Tracy Slusser has coached three NCAA championship teams. She has also experienced a coaching culture that made having children feel incompatible with doing the job at the highest level.

We talk about the expectations she absorbed early in her career, what happened when a fellow coach brought her child onto the deck at Nationals, and the changes Tracy wants to see—from emergency deck passes to better coverage when coaches take leave.

Today, Tracy works with coaches on leadership, confidence, and the skills needed to build a career they can sustain. We close on a question that connects her past work to what she does now: when coaches want to perform at the highest level, who helps them get better?

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What is a developmental coach actually trying to finish?

Longhorn Aquatics head coach Mike Laitala joins Chris DeSantis to discuss why producing fast young swimmers is not the same as preparing athletes for long-term success. They explore the risks of early specialization, the difference between developing strength and simply “lifting,” and why athletes can advance beyond their own developmental awareness.

Mike also explains how he prepares swimmers for college, another coach, and eventually the ability to direct their own careers. The goal isn’t to exhaust every tool available—it’s to build the foundation athletes will need for whatever comes next.