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Conventional wisdom says a founder who takes her foot off the gas will watch the business fall apart. Elise Mitchell slowed down, built a firm that could thrive without her, and sold it on her own terms.

In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria sits down with Elise Mitchell, founder and former CEO of Mitchell Communications Group, author of Leading Through the Turn, and executive coach, to talk about building a values-driven firm, keeping culture intact through rapid growth, and learning to enjoy the ride along the way.

Elise built her PR firm in Northwest Arkansas alongside clients like Walmart, Tyson Foods, and J.B. Hunt, grew it 500% in a few years, and sold it to Dentsu on her own terms. She’s candid about the moments she isn’t proud of, from the intervention that broke her workaholism to the day her team was fighting in the hallways. She also shares the simple habits that kept her connected to clients and employees as the firm scaled.

In this episode

• Why destination leaders need a journey mindset
• How “cultural scoundrels” quietly drive away your best people
• Turning values into behaviors people can be held accountable to
• Why self-interest undermines every client relationship
• How a Main Street USA point of view became a competitive advantage
• Why a founder-centric firm can only grow as far as its founder

Key Takeaways

• A performance culture that rewards the what but ignores the how creates a double standard, and once that happens, your values become words on paper.
• Values only stick when your team defines what living them looks like. Mitchell’s five values became real when small groups turned each word into everyday behaviors, which later showed up in annual reviews.
• Clients can sense a hidden agenda. When they know you’ll do what’s best for them even at a cost to you, trust follows, and making your client a hero is how you keep their business.
• In a crisis, the nimble firm wins. During the 2008 recession, Mitchell said yes to everything, embedded staff in client offices, and kicked off five years of rapid growth.
• Elise recommends Your Brain at Work by David Rock, a book that reflects her belief that self-awareness and mindset matter more as a leader’s stakes rise.

Resource and References

• Leading Through the Turn by Elise Mitchell: https://www.amazon.com/dp/125986099X
• The Trusted Advisor by David H. Maister, Charles H. Green, and Robert M. Galford: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0743212347
• Your Brain at Work by David Rock: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061771295

Learn more about Elise Mitchell: https://elisemitchell.com
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In construction, the unwritten rule is that the lowest bid wins the work. Daniel Wells and Nathan Sievers of Wells & Wells Construction built a multi-state firm on negotiated, repeat business instead.

In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead sit down with Daniel Wells, Owner and President of Wells & Wells Construction, and Nathan Sievers, Vice President and Director of Preconstruction, to talk about how a relationship-first philosophy built a nationally recognized general contractor.

Wells & Wells started in 1989 as a one-person home renovation business and got its first big commercial break because its electrician kept recommending it to a developer. Nearly four decades later, Daniel and Nathan explain how they kept that relationship-first approach while adding the structure needed to grow into new markets. That includes treating subs as part of the team, giving clients an open-book look at costs early in preconstruction, and hiring people who share the firm's values.

In this episode
• How a referral from their electrician, not a marketing plan, opened the door to commercial work
• Why relationships alone weren't enough to grow until the firm added structure
• Why preconstruction is where a client first forms a real impression of the brand
• How paying subs on time and banning yelling on site shows up in the finished project
• Why being the owner's advocate keeps developers coming back without a bid
• Why Wells & Wells hires for culture fit over résumé

Key Takeaways
• In an industry where no-shows are the norm, reliability is a brand. Doing what you say you'll do is enough to set you apart.
• Reputation is worth paying for. Wells & Wells sometimes spends real money to protect a move-in date, because there may be 300 students moving in, but there are 600 parents to answer to.
• Best value beats best number. Sometimes that means recommending a more expensive plumber when the low bid doesn't look right, and sometimes it means trusting the low bidder because they've earned it.
• Values on a wall mean nothing if leaders don't model them. Character shows up when there's a problem or when money is on the line, and teams learn by watching how their leaders react.
• Nathan's pick, Extreme Ownership, reflects his belief that every leader, whether leading a team or just themselves, should ask what they could have done better.
• Daniel's picks are about mindset: No Easy Day for pushing through hard moments, and The Millionaire Next Door for not judging customers by appearances.

Resource and References

• Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23848190-extreme-ownership
• No Easy Day by Mark Owen with Kevin Maurer: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/312085/no-easy-day-by-mark-owen
• The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/998.The_Millionaire_Next_Door

Learn more about Wells & Wells Construction: https://www.wellsandwells.com
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Most young architects dream of buildings that change the world, and casinos rarely make that list. David Nejelski spent 30 years proving that the right casino can transform an entire community.

In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead sit down with David Nejelski, Vice President, Creative Director, and Principal at TBE Architects, to explore how three decades of designing casino resorts with tribal nations turned into a lesson about listening, trust, and impact.

David started at TBE as an intern and quickly moved into conceptual design when his hand sketching caught the eye of the firm's design director. Over 30 years, he has helped tribes across North America build properties that function as economic engines while honoring the culture behind them. He shares why his team walks in without preconceived ideas, how the industry moved from themed fantasy environments to energy and experience, and why the most rewarding projects are the ones where the client pushes back the most.

In this episode

• Why a casino's first job is to be an economic engine for the tribe
• How to weave in cultural heritage without falling into stereotypes
• Why guest convenience and operational efficiency aren't at odds
• How tribal clients have evolved from first-time developers to sophisticated operators
• Why no design idea is sacred, and how iteration breaks you out of chasing perfection
• When a niche firm should stay focused and when it should chase new opportunities

Key Takeaways

• Repeat clients come from not showing up with a prepackaged idea. When you ask what the client wants and help them realize it, even when you'd have advised otherwise, you build relationships that last decades.
• The goal isn't a monument to yourself. David's team says "we" instead of "I" because the design belongs to the client, and the real skill is hearing what they mean, not just what they say.
• Cultural expression works best when it's felt, not shouted. Abstracting stories and meaning into arrival sequences and public spaces honors heritage without turning a resort into a museum or a stereotype.
• Guest convenience is the guest experience. If it's a hassle to park, get inside, or find services, guests will go somewhere else, so smart design serves the operation and the visitor at the same time.
• Know what you want to be the best at, and keep your head up. David points to podcasts like My First Million for the entrepreneurial mindset his partners value: stick to your core values, and don't let the next opportunity pass you by.

Resource and References

• The Joe Rogan Experience: https://www.joerogan.com/
• My First Million podcast: https://www.mfmpod.com/

Learn more about TBE Architects: https://www.tbearchitects.com/
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For decades, the unwritten rule in structural engineering was to stay invisible. Brad Thurman built a career proving that wrong.

In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Julie Hammond sit down with Brad Thurman, Principal and Chief Marketing Officer at Wallace Design Collective, to talk about what happens when an engineer decides the firm's brand matters as much as its work.

Brad joined the firm in 1987 as a project engineer and spent a decade in pure technical work before moving into marketing — a path that made him one of AEC's most recognized "seller-doers." He walks us through the firm's boldest move yet: dropping "engineering" from its name entirely and rebranding as Wallace Design Collective for its 40th anniversary, and why he believes human relationships will matter more, not less, as AI takes over the busywork.

In this episode

• Why being a "seller-doer" and an engineer who can also sell, became Brad's career advantage
• The story behind dropping "engineering" from the firm's name to become Wallace Design Collective
• How "dedicated to the art of engineering" quietly became "dedicated to the art of possibility"
• Wallace's retention playbook: the Glee Club, a paid volunteer day, and twice-yearly "echo meetings"
• Why AI will make relationships more valuable in professional services, not less
• What technical teams and marketing teams get wrong about each other and how to fix it

Key Takeaways

• Clients want to know who they're actually hiring before they sign on.

• Being upfront about who you are, even knowing it won't be everyone's cup of tea, builds more trust than a polished, generic pitch.

• Some of Brad's closest professional relationships are with his direct competitors. SMPS taught him that peer networks, even across rival firms, are a real business asset, not just networking small talk.

• Marketing and technical work are a symbiotic relationship. Treat them as separate silos and you lose both talent and business.

• Brad's book pick, Team of Rivals, reflects a leadership belief he still lives by: build a team with people willing to tell you no.

Resource and References

• Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln by Doris Kearns Goodwin: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2199.Team_of_Rivals

Learn more about Wallace Design Collective: https://wallace.design
Learn more about The Intangible Brand: TheIntangibleBrand.com

About Brad Thurman

Brad Thurman is a principal and Chief Marketing Officer of Wallace Design Collective, a professional consulting firm offering structural and civil engineering, landscape architecture, surveying and assessments. He joined Wallace in 1987 and is a licensed Professional Engineer. Since 1998, Brad has helped lead Wallace’s marketing and business development efforts across four disciplines and eight offices. He is a past president of the Oklahoma Chapter of the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS), served as the 2013-14 President on the SMPS National Board, and served as a trustee and as president of the SMPS Foundation Board of Trustees. Brad is a Certified Professional Services Marketer, was named a Fellow of SMPS in 2009, was elected to the National Academy of Construction in 2018, and was the 2025 recipient of SMPS's Weld Coxe Marketing Achievement Award.

#WallaceDesignCollective #AECMarketing #aecindustry #EmployeeExperience #ClientExperience #SMPS #BrandStrategy

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Jamie Shibley believes the strongest businesses aren't built on transactions, they're built on relationships that are cared for on purpose, every single time.

In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead sit down with Jamie Shibley, CEO of The Expressory and best-selling author of Relationship-First Strategic Engagement, to explore how genuine human connection can become a repeatable business strategy. After twenty years in IT and e-commerce, Jamie discovered that the real driver of long-term growth isn't logistics or marketing spend, it's emotional equity, and she's built her agency around helping companies build it deliberately.

The conversation moves from client gifting and referral nurturing into the more surprising territory of internal culture, making the case that how leaders acknowledge their own teams is the clearest predictor of how those teams will treat clients. Jamie and Jerry also dig into why AI and digital fatigue are pushing people back toward old-school, in-person connection rather than replacing it, and why the smallest, most human gestures; a handwritten note, a phone call, a "thank you" on the way out the door. are becoming the biggest competitive advantage available to any brand.

Whether you're leading a team, nurturing client relationships, or building a brand from the inside out, this episode offers practical insights into turning care into a system without losing what makes it feel genuine.

In This Episode

• Why "systematizing care" doesn't strip away authenticity. it scales it
• How to build a touch-point strategy for clients, prospects, and referral partners
• The connection between employee experience and client experience
• Why quiet, uneventful stretches in a relationship are often the biggest warning sign
• How AI and digital fatigue are driving a return to in-person, human connection
• What leaders often get wrong about brand, and why it's more about consistency than logos
• Jamie's path from twenty years in corporate e-commerce to founding The Expressory

Key Takeaways

• Genuine connection can be systematized without becoming impersonal — the system just has to be built on real research and intention.
• The best predictor of how a team treats clients is how its leaders treat the team.
• In a world saturated with AI-generated content, small, unmistakably human gestures are becoming a brand's sharpest differentiator.
• Relationships erode quietly, in the space between projects and regular, low-effort touch points are what keep them alive.
• The strongest brands are built on consistent private acts of care, not just public messaging.

Resources & References

• Relationship-First Strategic Engagement by Jamie Shibley
• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara

About Jamie Shibley

Jamie Shibley is the CEO of The Expressory, a strategic engagement agency that believes the key to accelerating business growth and profitability in the post-COVID era lies in your ability to create emotional equity through nurturing meaningful relationships.
A former IT and eCommerce leader with 20 years of corporate experience, Jamie went on to launch her own successful online brand where she discovered the true power of thoughtful, strategic gifting. Now, she's on a mission to help businesses reconnect on a human level and positively impact mental wellbeing by showing care and acknowledgement in meaningful ways.
Jamie is the best-selling author of Relationship-First Strategic Engagement and is widely respected as a market leader. Her work has been featured on Entertainment Tonight and Forbes.com.

Connect with Jamie Shibley

• The Expressory
• Jamie Shibley on LinkedIn

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Architecture is often thought of as the art of designing buildings, but Danny Forster sees it as something much bigger: the art of communicating an experience before it exists.

In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry Gennaria and Julie Hammond sit down with architect, Emmy Award-winning television host, and founder of Danny Forster & Architecture to explore how storytelling shapes the built environment. Danny explains why architects aren't really delivering buildings. They're helping people imagine a future, understand how they'll experience a space, and connect emotionally to a vision long before construction begins.

The conversation expands beyond architecture into branding, leadership, artificial intelligence, and communication. Danny shares why every profession is ultimately in the business of telling stories, how AI is changing the relationship between experts and clients, and why curiosity remains one of the most valuable traits for leaders navigating uncertainty.

Whether you're designing workplaces, building brands, or leading teams, this episode offers practical insights into making the intangible tangible.

In this episode

• Why architecture is fundamentally an act of communication
• The role storytelling plays in helping clients experience the future
• How physical spaces shape culture and organizational identity
• Why the best design begins with understanding human experience
• How AI is transforming creative work and professional services
• The importance of curiosity, empathy, and clear communication in leadership
• Lessons from Danny's career spanning architecture, television, entrepreneurship, and education

Key Takeaways

• Great design is about creating an experience, not simply delivering a product.
• Storytelling helps people understand ideas they can't yet see.
• Architecture, branding, and communication all begin with empathy for the audience.
• AI is changing how experts communicate, but it won't replace the need for human judgment and creativity.
• The strongest brands are built by intentionally shaping the experiences people have every day.

Resources & References

• Danny Forster's TED Talk

About Danny Forster

Danny Forster is an architect, Emmy Award-winning television host, TED speaker, entrepreneur, and founder of Danny Forster & Architecture. Throughout his career, he has combined architecture, storytelling, and technology to help organizations communicate the vision behind the spaces they create. His work spans hospitality, urban planning, residential design, modular construction, and media, with projects ranging from Marriott developments to Taylor Swift's penthouse renovation.

Connect with Danny

Website: https://www.dannyforster.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyforster/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyforster

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