My parents were visiting me the day I interviewed Sue Gordon, former Deputy Director of National Intelligence. So they joined me in the Treehouse Studio to say a quick hello to her.

Here's their conversation.

Sue Gordon once oversaw 100,000 women and men of the U.S. intelligence community as Deputy Director of National Intelligence, the number two role in American spycraft.

She briefed Presidents Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama, and Trump. She managed a $100 billion budget.

And in August 2019, she handed Vice President Pence her resignation letter with a handwritten note: "I offer this letter as an act of respect and patriotism, not preference. You should have your team. Godspeed, Sue."

Since then, life has come at her hard. Both parents died. Her husband Jim, the love of her life for 43 years, died unexpectedly. She has faced two rounds with cancer, the second one far more deadly than the first.

And she says she's the most blessed woman in the world.

In this conversation, Sue goes deep on:

• The U.S. strikes on Iran and what she sees that most Americans don't
• What the Epstein files actually reveal about how power protects itself
• Why she almost ran for President
• Why she quit the CIA with two weeks' notice to be a better mom
• How the Trump administration publicly excoriated a 40-year career civil servant, and what she chose to do instead of fighting back
• Why she thinks America needs to fix a system the Founders never designed for this much speed
• What she wants every woman in a man's world to know, and what she wants the good men to finally do about it
• The doorways of grief, and how to move through them
  

This is Sue Gordon in full: the spy, the mom, the widow, the patient, the patriot. Unfiltered. Funny. Occasionally heartbreaking. Always worth your time.

Find her podcast, Understandable Insights here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understandable-insights-information-to-intelligence/id1827249845

Books and Works Mentioned:

A Severe Mercy

The Price We Pay

An Immense Journey

Sue's Resignation Letter

If this episode is worthy of your time, please share it and leave a review. It's how we grow.

A few times during my two-part interview with Judge and Rebecca Gonzales, they turned the tables on me. They listened. And they drew three stories out of me that I've rarely shared.

The first is a story that never made it into the main episodes: the Oval Office advice I didn't want that... changed my life.

The second is about what happens when your Quaker mother and your Jewish father sit down together at Hanukkah.

The third is about what shaped my decision to work for Attorney General Gonzales as a political appointee.

If you haven't heard Parts One and Two yet, start there. This bonus episode will mean more after you've heard their full story.

Content warning: Like part 1, this episode touches on childhood trauma and may not be suitable for all listeners.

If you'd like to support the show, please follow Stumbling Blocks on your favorite podcast app and leave a review. It's the best way to help other leaders like you.

Part 2 of this exclusive conversation with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and his wife Rebecca. It is a conversation about love, political betrayal, faith, and what it means to keep going when the wilderness feels endless.

Judge Gonzales describes the political firestorm that ended his time as the nation's top law enforcement officer.

What followed were years Rebecca calls "the wilderness." The phone stopped ringing. Friends vanished. Job opportunities disappeared. And the pain was so deep they sat side by side in silence, because words wouldn't come.

But strangers showed up in ways you won't expect. And President Bush wrote a handwritten note that says something every leader needs to hear.

And eventually, it becomes clear where home is.

It's a political love story unlike any you've heard before.

If you missed Part 1, start there first: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exclusive-attorney-general-alberto-gonzales-becky-gonzales/id1849573843?i=1000757588087

Next episode: Sue Gordon, 30-year CIA veteran and former Deputy Director of National Intelligence.

0:00:00 Introduction & Part 1 Recap
0:03:30 The U.S. Attorney Scandal
0:07:45 "People Will Do Anything to Get Power"
0:09:50 President Bush Defends His Attorney General
0:11:45 The Call to Resign
0:15:30 The Phone Stopped Ringing
0:18:00 "We're Rich in Love"
0:22:15 President Bush's Handwritten Letter
0:27:30 The Wilderness Years
0:34:15 "It's Got to Work Out"
0:40:50 Finding Home in Nashville
0:45:35 Advice for Your Own Wilderness
0:51:00 Outro & Next Episode Preview

TAGS/KEYWORDS:

leadership, resilience, Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales, George W. Bush, public service, marriage, faith, political crisis, Washington DC, wilderness, Belmont University, trust, Rebecca Gonzales

Excerpts from Attorney General Gonzales and Rebecca Gonzales's interview with Stumbling Blocks on ICE Actions, Immigration, and the Epstein Files

Excerpted Quotes from Attorney General Gonzales On ICE Actions and Immigration

Based on what I've observed… it seems like we're going through an unprecedented, dangerous time. I worry about what's going on in our country, and I think a lot of Americans are worried about it.

The way that we're enforcing immigration today, to me, it sends a terrible message, not just to the American people. It sends a terrible message to people around the world, in terms of what America is today, as opposed to…talking about the value of immigrants and how much they've contributed and why we as a country are stronger and better because we have welcomed immigrants and they're part of the fabric of our society. I don't think that message is out there anymore, and I think that really does sadden me.

I think that makes America weaker. I really do. And I think it emboldens our enemies.

Hopefully the courts and hopefully Congress will take action and address it.

___________________________
Excerpted Quotes from Attorney General Gonzales On the Epstein Files

I think this whole episode is embarrassing. I think it's an embarrassment to this Administration, to the Department of Justice, a complete failure of the Department to abide by the law. That's the role of the Department of Justice — to enforce the law. And here we have a Department that's not doing that.

But what appears to be, in some cases, selective redactions and the selective release of documents, drip, drip, drip process, it sends a terrible message.

And I think it's legitimate for the American people to wonder, “what are you hiding?”

It hurts the image of America, I think, around the world.

The way that this has been handled from the very beginning has been a disaster. For the American people, certainly for this Administration, and for the victims.

EXCLUSIVE: This is a story two decades in the making. For the first time since leaving office 19 years ago, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and his wife Rebecca Gonzales sat down together for an interview.

In Part 1, the Attorney General and Rebecca speak candidly about ICE, immigration, and the Justice Department's handling of the Epstein files.

They talk about Al's rise from a two-bedroom house in Humble, Texas to the Oval Office, why he chose to make protecting kids from online predators a federal priority even during the global war on terror, and what it was like for Rebecca to navigate 9/11 alone with their boys while Al was at the White House.

Underneath the headlines is a story about faith and love and what happens when the President calls and your comfortable life disappears.

Part 2 drops next week.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Introduction
02:00 - Belmont University and Rebecca's path to social work
04:51 - On ICE and immigration
08:07 - The Epstein files: a failure by the Justice Department
13:38 - Rebecca's upbringing: Jewish mother, Mormon father
19:06 - Judge Gonzales' origins: son of migrant workers in Houston
22:53 - How Al and Rebecca met (and the Four Seasons bachelor pad)
25:27 - Governor Bush calls: leaving private practice behind

34:21 - Why he still prefers to be called "Judge"
35:45 - Moving to Washington with President Bush
38:57 - Rebecca alone: December 26 to June
42:36 - September 11th: Rebecca's story
44:50 - September 11th: The Judge on the Oval Office porch
52:58 - How 9/11 changed their faith and their family
56:46 - "Put your uniform on": becoming Attorney General
1:00:01 - Financial sacrifice and raising a family under pressure
1:04:31 - Project Safe Childhood: why he fought for kids
1:07:21 - A personal note from your host
1:12:07 - What's coming in Part 2

LINKS: Judge Gonzales' book, "True Faith and Allegiance: A Story of Service and Sacrifice in War and Peace": https://www.amazon.com/True-Faith-Allegiance-Service-Sacrifice/dp/071807887X

Project Safe Childhood (U.S. Department of Justice): https://www.justice.gov/psc

TAGS/KEYWORDS: leadership, Alberto Gonzales, attorney general, 9/11, Bush administration, immigration, faith, family, White House, Department of Justice, Project Safe Childhood, Epstein files, public service, resilience, Rebecca Gonzales

Conor Grennan is CEO of AI Mindset and until recently, Chief AI Architect at NYU Stern School of Business. He's trained teams at Google, NASA, Microsoft, JP Morgan, and many more.

He's a New York Times bestselling author, a MasterClass Instructor, co-host of the AI Applied podcast, and a recipient of the Dalai Lama's Unsung Hero of Compassion Award.

Conor has become one of the most sought-after speakers and strategists in the AI space.

But what's most interesting are the reinventions that brought Conor to AI: moving to Prague at 21 to avoid being ordinary, volunteering in a Nepali orphanage, going back when the children he cared for were re-trafficked, and writing a fantasy novel.

We dig into Conor's contrarian take that AI is fundamentally a Change Management issue, not a tech issue.

We also cover his best public speaking advice, what he would say with one final tweet, and the one simple thing any leader can do today to start using AI:

"Just tell it."

TIMESTAMPS:

(04:33) Why honest reason Conor kept putting himself in interesting positions

(06:23) Moving to Prague at 21

(07:49) Going to Nepal for a pickup line

(09:46) Why he went back

(12:49) Seeing a need and filling it

(13:30) Meeting the Dalai Lama

(15:29) How "The Art of Happiness" changed everything — and why he was happiest with nothing

(18:57) Coming back to America and what he couldn't bring with him

(21:28) How Nepal changed his parenting

(23:48) Writing fiction: The Hadley Academy and the introvert revelation

(27:51) How NYU Stern's Dean of Students role found him

(31:59) Public speaking: why making a small mistake might be the key to winning the audience

(37:46) The AI framework that flipped everything

(43:24) AI is like electricity, not a light bulb

(46:42) AI: just tell it

(48:16) One tweet left: "You don't have to do what everybody else does"

(50:07) Jonathan's outro — what Conor's story means for leaders navigating reinvention, and a preview of the Attorney General Gonzales episode

LINKS:

Conor's company — AI Mindset: https://www.ai-mindset.ai/

Conor's podcast — AI Applied (with Jaeden Schafer): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ai-applied-covering-ai-news-interviews-and-tools/id1669799110

Conor's book — Little Princes: One Man's Promise to Bring Home the Lost Children of Nepal:
https://a.co/d/00sGdmLP

Conor's book — The Hadley Academy for the Improbably Gifted: https://a.co/d/05icO15V

ABOUT:

Jonathan Block is a leadership development and change management advisor who has helped hundreds of Fortune 500 leaders navigate C-suite succession, AI adoption, M&A, and organizational transformation. He launched and led PricewaterhouseCoopers' Trust Leadership Institute, reaching 14,000 Fortune 500 executives over 3 years, and driving $2 billion in influenced wins for PwC. He recently founded Block Leadership Group and hosts this podcast to quench his insatiable curiosity about the moments that change great leaders.

More: www.blockleadershipgroup.com

In this episode, I welcome Rear Admiral Tim Ziemer, the former chief of the President’s Malaria Initiative (PMI) and former CEO of World Relief.

Admiral Ziemer explains how and why he saved 12 million people from death by malaria, and prevented another 2 billion cases of the disease.

He reflects on a life of disciplined service bookended by tragedy, from the 1968 attack in Vietnam that killed his father and left his mother with 18 grenade wounds, to the sudden loss of his wife of 54 years, Jodi.

From Admiral Ziemer, you'll learn these 3 things:

1) The surprising note his mom gave him after she landed in an air ambulance at Andrews AFB

2) What it took for him to say "yes" to the call from the White House

3) How to design a life

Chapters
00:00 – Introduction

03:40 – Understanding the scale of the world's deadliest disease.

08:31 – The "Decommissioning" of USAID

12:56 – The Drill Instructor’s "Black Book"

15:00 – A Childhood in a Leper Colony

19:19 – Processing the murder of his dad and the capture of his mom.

22:06 – A Note of Gratitude: The incredible moment on a medical transport plane.

26:52 – Returning to Vietnam

31:31 – "I Don’t Coordinate": Negotiating with the Bush White House for authority to get things done.

40:06 – "Go Save Lives": A direct briefing in the Oval Office

46:14 – Alone on Golden Pond: Navigating grief and finding purpose after the death of his wife.

47:31 – The Final Challenge: Design a life around faithfulness.

Links:
KFF Research

https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/the-trump-administrations-foreign-aid-review-status-of-the-presidents-malaria-initiative-pmi/

CDC Website: PMI Celebrates 15 Years

https://archive.cdc.gov/www_cdc_gov/globalhealth/stories/2020/celebrating-15-years.html

NIH Report on PMI

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8176495/

Wheaton Magazine: Hope in the Healer

https://magazine.wheaton.edu/stories/hope-in-the-healer

Remarks upon Receiving the Roger E Joseph Prize

https://www.rogerejosephprize.org/2015

Jodi Ziemer Obituary

https://vacremationsociety.com/obituary/gene-joanne-jodi-ziemer/

Admiral Tim Ziemer: Rallying the World to Defeat Malaria

https://medium.com/@PMIgov/rallying-the-world-to-defeat-malaria-4c2b63f231e2

New York Times: The Malaria Fighter

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/science/a-quiet-approach-to-bringing-down-malaria.html

PHOTO BY GREG KAHN FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES