My parents were visiting me the day I interviewed Sue Gordon, former Deputy Director of National Intelligence. So they joined me in the Treehouse Studio to say a quick hello to her.

Here's their conversation.

Sue Gordon once oversaw 100,000 women and men of the U.S. intelligence community as Deputy Director of National Intelligence, the number two role in American spycraft.

She briefed Presidents Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama, and Trump. She managed a $100 billion budget.

And in August 2019, she handed Vice President Pence her resignation letter with a handwritten note: "I offer this letter as an act of respect and patriotism, not preference. You should have your team. Godspeed, Sue."

Since then, life has come at her hard. Both parents died. Her husband Jim, the love of her life for 43 years, died unexpectedly. She has faced two rounds with cancer, the second one far more deadly than the first.

And she says she's the most blessed woman in the world.

In this conversation, Sue goes deep on:

• The U.S. strikes on Iran and what she sees that most Americans don't
• What the Epstein files actually reveal about how power protects itself
• Why she almost ran for President
• Why she quit the CIA with two weeks' notice to be a better mom
• How the Trump administration publicly excoriated a 40-year career civil servant, and what she chose to do instead of fighting back
• Why she thinks America needs to fix a system the Founders never designed for this much speed
• What she wants every woman in a man's world to know, and what she wants the good men to finally do about it
• The doorways of grief, and how to move through them
  

This is Sue Gordon in full: the spy, the mom, the widow, the patient, the patriot. Unfiltered. Funny. Occasionally heartbreaking. Always worth your time.

Find her podcast, Understandable Insights here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understandable-insights-information-to-intelligence/id1827249845

Books and Works Mentioned:

A Severe Mercy

The Price We Pay

An Immense Journey

Sue's Resignation Letter

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A few times during my two-part interview with Judge and Rebecca Gonzales, they turned the tables on me. They listened. And they drew three stories out of me that I've rarely shared.

The first is a story that never made it into the main episodes: the Oval Office advice I didn't want that... changed my life.

The second is about what happens when your Quaker mother and your Jewish father sit down together at Hanukkah.

The third is about what shaped my decision to work for Attorney General Gonzales as a political appointee.

If you haven't heard Parts One and Two yet, start there. This bonus episode will mean more after you've heard their full story.

Content warning: Like part 1, this episode touches on childhood trauma and may not be suitable for all listeners.

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