One of our earliest conversations, recorded in 2018 with Tod Bolsinger about his groundbreaking book Canoeing the Mountains. Tod explores what it means to lead in uncharted territory, the difference between technical and adaptive challenges, and how leaders can navigate change when the old maps no longer work. This conversation helped shape the direction of this podcast and remains essential listening for anyone leading through uncertainty.

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In this special episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership, Markus Watson reflects on the incredible six-and-a-half-year journey of the podcast, shares the story of its beginnings, and reveals exciting news about its next chapter. With a partnership ending and fresh possibilities ahead, Markus opens up about his plans for a creative sabbatical, new formats, and future topics that matter to church leaders today. Plus, he invites listeners to help shape the show's direction by joining a Zoom call and taking a quick survey.

THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Markus Watson celebrates the rewarding journey of hosting the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast for six and a half years.
• The podcast exists to help leaders cultivate a healthy inner life that informs fruitful leadership.
• Markus Watson announces a solo episode—no guests, no music—focused on what's next for the show.
• The podcast will continue after the end of its partnership with Fuller Seminary’s Church Leadership Institute.
• Markus Watson highlights how the partnership boosted credibility and helped secure high-profile guests.
• Adaptive leadership has been a key theme valued by church leaders.
• Markus Watson anticipates experimenting with new topics and formats, including panel discussions.
• The podcast will expand to address leadership challenges such as polarization, church hurt, and financial anxiety.
• Markus Watson reiterates the ongoing mission of supporting leaders through spiritual formation.
• Sabbath, rest, and healthy practices remain central themes to the content.
• The podcast will feature a creative sabbatical, with new episodes returning in April.
• Encore episodes will keep the feed active during the sabbatical.
• Listeners are invited to fill out a short survey to influence future direction.
• Markus Watson encourages participation in an upcoming Zoom call for listener feedback and stories.
• The podcast will remain practical, addressing real challenges facing ministry leaders.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• 5-Question Survey
  • www.markuswatson.com/survey
• Join the Zoom call on January 29, 2026
  • markus@markuswatson.com
• Books mentioned:
  • Podcasting For Dummies

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This is it—the final episode of our partnership with the Church Leadership Institute. It's hard to believe how quickly these years have flown by.

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson look back on what this collaboration has meant, what we've accomplished together, and where the road leads from here.

THIS EPSODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Markus Watson reflects on starting the podcast during a time of personal transition and describes how the partnership with the Church Leadership Institute began in a providential way.
• Markus Watson shares that joining the Church Leadership Institute’s podcast team was not an answer to a specific prayer, but an unexpected opportunity that resonated with his calling.
• Tod Bolsinger explains that the Church Leadership Institute started as a place for researching adaptive change while directly working with leaders and practitioners.
• Leaders benefit most from research that connects theory with real-life contexts, especially in smaller church settings.
• Churches and leaders need resources that are accessible to smaller congregations, not just large organizations.
• Tod Bolsinger emphasizes that making adaptive change in smaller churches can feel as difficult as changing one’s family of origin.
• Experimentation, contextual cohorts, and digital platforms proved effective for spreading adaptive leadership resources across diverse church settings.
• Delivering effective leadership development depends on understanding the specific context of each congregation.
• You cannot develop adaptive capacity simply by consuming information; leaders must actively practice adaptive work.
• Tod Bolsinger stresses that you cannot outwork a changing world, highlighting the importance of discernment and adaptability rather than relying solely on hard work.
• Crisis situations, like the pandemic, require leaders to learn new ways of thinking, rather than applying old solutions to new challenges.
• Significant changes, such as the rise of telecommuting, political shifts, and technological advances, have rapidly altered the leadership landscape.
• Tod Bolsinger notes that the main challenge now is developing adaptive capacity in entire congregations, not just among pastors or staff.
• Developing adaptive discipleship within a congregation requires a shift from programmatic solutions to cultivating a transformative organizational culture.
• Markus Watson explores experimenting with new podcast formats and continuing conversations with leaders to support spiritual life and leadership growth.
• Tod Bolsinger charges leaders to embrace a posture of curiosity, prioritizing learning and question-asking over being the “learned expert.”

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Church Leadership Institute
• Related episodes:
  • 100. The Spiritual Life of a Leader, with Tod Bolsinger
  • 116. Power, Vulnerability, Rest, with Tod Bolsinger
  • 144. Is the Church Failing to Make Disciples? with Tod Bolsinger

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.