Sir Graham Henry has the best win record in All Blacks history - but there was a moment in the early stages when he almost walked away from it all.

In 2001, as the highest-paid rugby coach in the world, he lost a Lions series he expected to win. He hit a wall, resigned, and moved back to New Zealand. Six months later he took a job as a provincial assistant coach.

He went from making $1 million a year to $25,000 a year.

What he worked out in between is what he used to lead the All Blacks to win the 2011 World Cup: it isn't about you.

I talk to him about ambition that survives public failure, the night in Johannesburg that triggered the biggest culture change in All Blacks history, why players take criticism from teammates they'd never take from management — and the question he's still turning over at eighty, about whether he should have been kinder to the men he won with.

WHAT'S COVERED

· The defeat that ended one career and started another

· Why exercise was the first thing he reached for, and what it did

· Going from head coach to assistant, and what surprised him about it

· The difference between culture as a values statement and culture as a set of behaviours

· Humble and hungry — and why the players wrote it, not the coach

· Mentoring pairs: how a new All Black became world class in 18 months

· What he learned coaching the Black Ferns that he wishes he'd known earlier

Hunger & Heart is a podcast about the intersection of wild ambition and fierce compassion, hosted by Kaila Colbin. Find out more at Hunger & Heart with Kaila Colbin | Raw Conversations with sports legends .

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Hunger & Heart is brought to you by the Crusaders Leadership Programme™. Whether you're coaching under-5s or a professional team, we all want the same thing: to build cultures of trust, get the best out of our people, and grow players into leaders.

The Crusaders Leadership Programme™ lets you get up close and personal with some of the greatest rugby legends of all time — people like Sir Wayne Smith, Sam Whitelock, and Kieran Read. You'll connect with a global group of ambitious, caring coaches from a range of codes and backgrounds, and most importantly, you'll gain skills and techniques to drive impact and outcomes for your team.

The Crusaders Leadership Programme™ is a two-week high-intensity virtual experience. It is delivered exclusively online, accessible from anywhere.

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