Rex brings on his longtime friend Taylor Savage — a lifelong “techie” turned software engineer and product manager — for a candid, outside-the-crypto-bubble conversation about what crypto actually looks like from the broader tech world. From an early Bitcoin birthday gift (and an early sale…) to the last decade of fraud “speed-runs,” they debate irreversibility, regulation, institutional adoption, and whether crypto’s real promise is narrow-but-real or mostly drowned out by hype and extraction.

Rex sits down with Sam McCulloch (Growth Lead at USD.ai, formerly Leviathan News and Flywheel DeFi) to talk about what crypto’s been optimizing for—and what it should optimize for next. Sam argues the last couple of cycles rewarded extractive “attention finance” (meme coins, short-horizon speculation), and that the industry needs to reclaim a more constructive narrative: build real products, connect to real-world balance sheets, and make the rails useful outside of crypto itself.

In the back half, they go deep on USD.ai’s thesis: bringing DeFi-style, programmatic lending to GPU infrastructure. Sam walks through how tokenized “title” to GPUs can stay productive inside data centers while changing hands—using familiar commercial-law concepts like warehousing and documents of title—so liquidations look more like transferring ownership than physically moving hardware.

Based rollups have been floating around Ethereum discourse for a couple years now, but the concept remains confusing even to people who understand rollups generally. The pitch sounds almost contradictory: use Ethereum's decentralized validator set to sequence rollups, but somehow still get the fast, smooth UX of centralized sequencers like Base or Arbitrum.

Jason Vranek works on Fabric, building the infrastructure to make based rollups actually work. In this episode, he walks through the architecture piece by piece: what "based sequencing" actually means, why the original "total anarchy" designs had terrible UX, and how pre-confirmations and gateways solve that without re-centralizing everything.

The conversation gets into the PBS (proposer-builder separation) analogy—just as builders abstract away MEV sophistication from validators, gateways can abstract away pre-confirmation complexity. Jason explains the transaction flow from user to blob, how proposer commitments enable coordination without requiring validators to become sophisticated, and why the real unlock isn't necessarily replacing centralized rollups, but enabling L1-to-L2 composability that doesn't exist today.

They also discuss where things actually stand: Tycho is live on mainnet with a rotating sequencer set, the Fusaka hard fork just shipped a critical EIP for deterministic lookahead, Fabric is deploying a universal registry contract for proposer collateral, and real-time proving has gone from "years away" to "usable building block." Plus: why the end state probably isn't "all rollups become based," but rather a spectrum of designs that pick their tradeoffs deliberately.