This episode of Sell With Authority is part of our special series exploring one of the most vital dynamics inside every agency's sales process: trust and distrust.

You've been hearing from agency leaders who are leaning into this issue head-on. These conversations are not only timely — they're also forming the research foundation for my next book, The Trust Architecture, and a new series of Field Guides we'll be sharing with our community.

As we've seen time and again from our work alongside agency owners and their teams — trust, or the lack of it, is often the biggest obstacle to having a sales pipeline that feels like a steady stream of right-fit prospects flowing into your agency.

Which makes today's conversation a perfect fit for this series.

Our special guest expert is Jerry Gennaria, President and CEO of TOKY.

Jerry brings more than 30 years of experience helping professional service firms tell their story more effectively, build stronger businesses, and reach their full potential. He's also the host of The Intangible Brand podcast — where he explores what brand really means beyond the surface-level tactics.

Here's why Jerry's perspective matters so much for this series…

In a recent LinkedIn post, he made an incredibly sharp observation — when Southwest Airlines cut away the very things customers loved most about their experience, it wasn't just a rebrand.

A brand isn't just graphics or identity — it's about who you are internally and how customers experience you externally. When you change that alignment — you break trust.

That ties directly to what we saw in the 2025 Edelman Trust Barometer — when trust erodes, grievance and frustration take over — but when trust grows, optimism and loyalty follow.

That's exactly the kind of work Jerry and his team at TOKY do every day — helping clients align their brand and their actions so that trust is reinforced at every single touchpoint.

When your agency's brand and your actions are aligned — trust isn't an abstract idea. It's felt — in every interaction, every proposal, every conversation.

When trust is felt at every touchpoint — selling more of what you do stops being about persuasion — and starts being about consistency.

That's why we wanted Jerry's perspective to be part of this series.

When I say we — I mean Hannah Roth, our Director of Strategy and Mad Scientist, is here with me for this conversation to bring her data-driven perspective into this discussion with Jerry — because when you combine brand alignment with real-world strategy — that's when trust becomes measurable and scalable.

• How to make prospects feel seen — and why that matters for conversion
• Jerry's "brand is a promise delivered" philosophy for agencies
• The art and science of pushing back — and how it earns deep respect from right-fit clients
• Why authentic storytelling aligned with your brand delivers exponential results
• Ways to boldly show your expertise without being self-aggrandizing
• Why trust is not built in the big gestures

• Website: toky.com
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gennaria/
• The Intangible Brand: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-intangible-brand/
• TOKY: https://www.linkedin.com/company/toky-branding/
• The Intangible Brand Podcast: www.theintangiblebrand.com

Today's episode is part of our special series exploring one of the most vital dynamics inside every agency's sales process: trust and distrust.

Over the coming weeks, you'll hear from agency leaders who are leaning into this issue head-on. These conversations are not only timely — they're also forming the research foundation for my next book, The Trust Architecture, and a new series of Field Guides we'll be sharing with our community.

Here at Predictive ROI, we help agencies sell more of what they do. And time and again, from our work alongside agency owners and their teams, we've seen that trust — or the lack of it — is the biggest variable determining whether your pipeline flows like a steady stream of right-fit prospects… or grinds to a halt.

When trust is present — momentum builds.

When trust is absent — friction takes over.

Which makes today's conversation a perfect fit for this series. Our special guest expert is Darren Magarro, Founder and President of DSM. Since launching DSM in 2007, Darren has led his agency through the ups, downs, twists, and turns that every agency owner knows too well.

But what truly sets him apart is how he leads. Darren's people-first, community-centered approach is at the heart of how DSM builds trust. He works tirelessly to put others on a path to success — and that shows up in every corner of his business.

When trust increases — optimism replaces grievance — and people shift from frustration to future-focused hope.

Darren's leadership embodies that shift.

• The rock solid data that proves why "people-first" and community-centered leadership is now the must-have ingredient for agencies that want to build real trust
• How Darren's approach to leadership at DSM turns transparency and empathy into a competitive business advantage
• Why budget qualification must happen early
• The three-step biz dev process that weeds out bad fits so you can focus on dream clients
• Why client stories, tough conversations, and owning mistakes can translate directly into agency resilience and reputation
• Candid advice for agency owners who want their team and clients to be truly optimistic about the future
• Why your LinkedIn content should be more helpful

• Website: https://thedsmgroup.com/
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenmagarro/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-dsm-group/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDSMGroup
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedsmgroup

Today's episode is part of our special series exploring one of the most critical — and sometimes challenging — dynamics inside the agency sales process: trust and distrust.

Over the coming weeks, you'll hear from agency leaders who are leaning into this issue — sharing real stories, lessons learned, and how they're building trust at every stage of their business development journey.

These conversations are more than just episodes. They're also shaping the research foundation for our next book, The Trust Architecture, and for a set of Field Guides we'll be sharing with our community soon.

If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know that at Predictive ROI, we help agencies sell more of what they do. And what we've seen time and again — across hundreds of agencies — is that trust, or the lack of it, is often the single biggest factor determining whether your sales pipeline flows or stalls.

When trust is present — conversations feel easy, opportunities open up, and right-fit prospects move forward.

But when trust is missing — friction builds, uncertainty creeps in, and momentum disappears.

That's exactly why today's conversation is such a great fit for this series.

Our special guest expert is Lyndsey Maddox, CEO of Digital Third Coast, a digital marketing agency founded in 2007 with a mission to make a measurable difference.

Lyndsey joined the agency back in 2009 and has played just about every role on her way to the CEO seat. Along the way, she discovered her passion for helping clients win new business by being found at the exact right moment.

For Lyndsey, good marketing isn't about what you spend or where you place it — it's about what you get in return.

She understands how visibility and credibility intersect — and how the right strategies can transform expertise into influence and trust into measurable growth.
I'm also joined by my colleague and co-host, Hannah Roth, our Director of Strategy and resident Mad Scientist here at Predictive.
Hannah works in the trenches every day alongside our clients — helping them build trust at scale — and she leads all of our experiments inside the Predictive Lab.

• What "trust as a two-way street" looks like in every agency relationship — from right-fit clients to your own team
• The power of showing up consistently, owning your wins and your losses in biz dev
• The power of showing up consistently, owning your wins — and your losses — in biz dev
• Why making "deposits" into your trust bank is key to filling your pipeline with right-fit prospects
• The steps Lyndsey's team takes in their sales process to set expectations and prove their authority
• How to turn expertise into visibility
• Why authenticity and human stories will matter even more as AI raises credibility challenges

• Website: www.digitalthirdcoast.net
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lyndseykramer/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digital-third-coast-internet-marketing/