If the goal of school is to learn, school isn't a game. But if the goal of school is to get a high score on a test, or raise the rankings of your university, or beat the competition to get into med school, then school looks an awful lot like a game, with winning more important than learning.

Ethan Hutt joins me to discuss the idea of school as a game, and how we can reduce the distance between learning and scoring.

Check out Ethan's book (co-authored with Jack Schneider) here: https://www.offthemarkbook.com/

Donald MacKenzie rejoins the show to talk about his book An Engine, Not a Camera, which is about how financial models aren't designed to reflect the world economy, like a camera, but drive the world economy, like an engine. This means that a large part of economics is driven by trading that resembles a Reiner Knizia or 18XX game. It also means that trading and gambling can be pretty hard to differentiate.

You can read more about Donald's book here: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262633673/an-engine-not-a-camera/

Ian Bogost joins me to discuss The Small Stuff, his book about finding gratification in physical things. We discuss his road from game studies to gratification, the place for gratification in games, and how something as small as pushing a button or cradling a joystick can make us happy.