In this episode of LevelUp, David and Sean sit down with Amir Haleem, co-founder of Helium and CEO of Nova Labs. Amir shares Helium's decade-long evolution from IoT infrastructure to a decentralized 5G network powering real-world wireless coverage. He breaks down the Helium Mobile business model, how token incentives drive hotspot deployment, and why carrier offload could transform the economics of telecom. The discussion covers network growth, tokenomics, governance, and the future of decentralized physical infrastructure. View the Full Level Up Podcast Disclaimer Here: https://level-up-podcast-disclaimer.super.site/ Key Points From This Episode: [00:00:00] David and Sean’s opening segment: Helium overview, HNT stats/market context, DePIN comps, and how Helium’s mobile + offload businesses work [00:12:49] Interview begins — Amir joins and frames Helium as a decade-plus journey [00:13:03] From video games to Helium: early career in gaming and esports, meeting Sean Fanning, and the origins of the IoT thesis [00:17:13] The hardest problem pre-crypto: deploying a wireless network at scale without billions in capital [00:21:24] Token evolution: HNT’s role in cold start, Proof-of-Coverage, sub-tokens experiment, and why everything merged back into HNT [00:26:19] Product breakdown: hotspot deployment, carrier offload for AT&T/others vs. Helium Mobile’s subscriber (MVNO-like) business [00:34:03] Helium Mobile unit economics: offload percentage targets, reducing reliance on T-Mobile, and why traditional MVNOs struggle ​​[00:40:21] How the money moves: dollars in → HNT bought and burned → data credits → hotspot payouts at ~$0.50 per GB​ [00:49:30] Carrier offload today: live carrier count, Mexico / Telefónica rollout, DAUs, and daily terabytes of traffic [00:53:10] Tokenomics today: deflationary dynamics, halving cadence, net issuance turning negative, and fundamentals vs. price [01:01:52] Governance and network control: HIP process, vote-locking, why hotspot operators don’t need to stake HNT [01:05:13] Clarifying Helium Mobile vs. offload users and how DAU scales across the network [01:22:35] Final reflections on Helium’s trajectory and closing thoughts [01:23:59] Outro and sign-off Links: The Medici Network: https://www.medici.network/ Podcast Site: https://levelup.medici.network/ Interested in being a Guest? Connect with Elmira on X: https://x.com/elmira_yilham Co-Hosts David Grider, Finality Capital - https://x.com/David_Grid Sean Farrell, Fundstrat Global Advisors - https://x.com/SeanMFarrell Guests Amir Haleem, Helium - https://x.com/amirhaleem Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant - https://thepodcastconsultant.com

In this episode of Level Up, David and Sean speak with Jansen Teng, Co-Founder of Virtuals Protocol. Jansen breaks down how Virtuals is pioneering the agent-to-agent economy by combining AI agents with blockchain infrastructure. The conversation explores agent tokenization, commerce protocols, and the vision for a fully autonomous digital and physical agent-driven marketplace. They also examine Virtuals' revenue models, current use cases, and future expansion plans.

View the Full Level Up Podcast Disclaimer Here: https://level-up-podcast-disclaimer.super.site/

Key Points From This Episode:

[00:00:00] Host intro: David and Sean introduce guest Jansen Teng and Virtuals Protocol [00:17:05] Introduction to Virtuals Protocol and its AI-blockchain thesis [00:18:36] Market traction, metrics, and agentic GDP [00:23:17] Examples of agents on Virtuals [00:27:55] Multi-agent coordination via ACP and flow of funds [00:32:48] Real-world vs crypto use cases and roadmap for Web2 integration [00:36:22] Virtual token mechanics: base pair currency and treasury governance [00:40:14] Supply, issuance, and value accrual strategies [00:44:29] Governance structure and use of vote-escrowed tokens [00:48:17] Competitive landscape: launchpads, agentic frameworks, and AI protocols [00:51:30] Integration with Base and scalability concerns [00:54:40] Attention as the biggest risk and robotics as the next frontier [00:58:24] Performance metrics and upcoming catalysts for Virtuals Protocol [01:02:17] Final thoughts from Jansen on the agentic economy vision

Links:

The Medici Network: https://www.medici.network/

Podcast Site: https://levelup.medici.network/

Interested in being a Guest? Connect with Elmira on X: https://x.com/elmira_yilham

Co-Hosts

David Grider, Finality Capital - https://x.com/David_Grid

Sean Farrell, Fundstrat Global Advisors - https://x.com/SeanMFarrell

Guest

Jansen Teng, Virtuals Protocol

X - https://x.com/ethermage

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jansenteng/

Production and editing by The Podcast Consultant - https://thepodcastconsultant.com/