Every ministry transition comes with both a push and a pull. Sometimes you’re drawn toward a new calling. Other times you simply know you can’t stay.

For Tim Stevens, those moments have shaped four decades of leadership in the church - and given him a front-row seat to hundreds of leaders navigating their own endings and beginnings.

In this conversation, Tim shares candidly about untangling his identity from the church he helped build, why pastors often stay too long, and how to navigate the grief and uncertainty that come with leaving.

From decades at Granger Community Church to crisis leadership at Willow Creek during COVID, Tim has lived through seasons that tested both his loyalty and his leadership instincts.

Now, through Leading Smart, he walks pastors and boards through governance challenges, succession planning, and leadership transitions.

Tim offers practical wisdom for both leaders in the second chair and those tasked with guiding major shifts - always with the reminder that ministry endings can be done in ways that protect people, preserve purpose, and prepare for what’s next.

Key Takeaways

• The “push and pull” dynamic is present in every ministry transition.
• Identity can become dangerously intertwined with a role - separation is painful but necessary.
• Pastors often stay longer than they should due to loyalty, finances, or lack of vision for life after ministry.
• Succession planning must start years in advance to avoid crisis moments.
• Governance structures that worked for a smaller church may need major revision as the church grows.
• Churches rarely have systems in place to care for staff after terminations or transitions.
• Healthy endings require intentionality, outside support, and a willingness to let go.

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 – Pickleball, Notre Dame, and the start of the conversation
• 02:29 – Matt’s transition season and early connection with Tim
• 03:17 – Tim’s 40 years in ministry and five major transitions
• 06:55 – Leaving Granger: identity, co-dependence, and the year-long decision
• 13:06 – Lessons from Vanderbloemen: big vs. small church transitions
• 15:17 – Leading through crisis at Willow Creek during COVID
• 18:49 – The birth of Leading Smart and the work Tim does today
• 24:36 – The state of the American church and Gen Z trends
• 26:20 – Why pastors aren’t ready for succession - and how to prepare
• 28:33 – Outplacement and caring well for staff you have to let go
• 32:21 – How to connect with Tim and Leading Smart

If you’re in a season of transition - or see one on the horizon - visit MinistryTransitions.com to connect, give, or book a confidential call. And explore Tim’s work at LeadingSmart.com for coaching, consulting, and resources your church can put into action right now.

What if the health of your ministry depends more on your board than you think? Dr. Michael Anthony has spent 40 years in boardrooms - as a member, chair, consultant, and C-suite leader - and he’s seen what works and what breaks ministries apart.

In this candid conversation, Dr. Anthony unpacks common mistakes boards make, the unseen cost of poor governance, and the simple practices that lead to longevity and mission health.

From defining lanes to using a “log of motions,” from succession planning to EQ, he explains why leadership transitions succeed - or fail - long before the public ever sees it.

And he gets personal, sharing the story of his most painful ministry transition, the “dark night of the soul” it brought, and how God restored his joy and purpose.

Whether you’re a ministry leader, board member, or walking through a transition, this episode will give you tools to strengthen your leadership and hope for what’s next.

• Why lack of proper orientation is one of the most common board failures.

• How a “log of motions” can prevent repetitive mistakes and clarify focus.

• The three duties of board members: care, loyalty, and obedience.

• Why clear role boundaries prevent dysfunction between boards and staff.

• Succession planning as a regular board discipline, not a crisis reaction.

• The critical role EQ plays in leadership longevity.

• How God can use painful transitions for deeper growth and joy.

00:00 – Welcome & backstory with Dr. Michael Anthony 01:11 – Why this book on nonprofit boards 02:18 – Common causes of board dysfunction 05:24 – The onboarding process done right 07:43 – What’s a “log of motions” and why it matters 09:48 – The three duties of every board member 14:36 – Board size, terms, and rotation 18:04 – How to transition a board member off gracefully 20:36 – When to resign from a board for unity’s sake 24:17 – Role of the board chair & relationship with CEO 31:09 – Using ongoing board training to stay healthy 32:11 – Succession planning without personal attack 34:39 – How boards can handle leadership exits well 38:43 – Accountability, care, and EQ in board leadership 43:54 – What’s at stake if boards are neglected 46:52 – Differences between church and nonprofit boards 49:52 – Growing through painful ministry transitions 57:52 – How to connect with Dr. Anthony

If you’re walking through a ministry transition - or know someone who is - you’re not alone. Connect with us at ministrytransitions.com for coaching, resources, and a path forward. To reach Dr. Michael Anthony directly, email manthony@dts.edu or michael@calibrateglobalconsulting.com.

What happens when a leader transitions not just into a new role - but into their calling?

In this episode, Matt Davis introduces Ron Henry, the newly appointed Chief Succession Officer at Ministry Transitions. Ron brings decades of experience in executive placement and career development, but his deeper calling?

Helping leaders find where God wants them next.

This isn’t just a career conversation - it’s a soul-level journey.

Ron shares raw stories of failure, fear, and faith, revealing what makes a transition succeed or fall apart.

Whether you're facing a career shift, retirement, or leading an organization through change, this episode is packed with wisdom you need now - not someday.

If you’ve ever asked, “What’s next for me?” - this conversation is your next step.

• From Music to Ministry: Ron’s career in music and executive search wasn’t random - it was preparation for ministry impact.
• The Power of NetWeaving: True connection isn’t just networking - it’s purposeful relationship building.
• Great Fit vs. Good Fit: Success isn’t just about skills. Cultural and spiritual alignment make all the difference.
• Why Transitions Fail: Fear, pride, and desperation can sabotage a move. Wisdom, patience, and community bring peace.
• Succession is Spiritual: Planning for what’s next isn’t just smart - it’s biblical stewardship.
• Community Over Ego: Millennials’ community-first mindset gives Ron hope for the church’s future.
• Finishing Strong: Leaders must not cling to identity in a title. True legacy comes from passing the torch well.

00:00 – Welcome + Big Announcement: Ron joins Ministry Transitions as Chief Succession Officer 01:05 – Ron’s Journey: From the music industry to executive search to ministry 02:38 – NetWeaving Defined: The art of connecting people with purpose 03:36 – What Makes a Great Fit?: Beyond resumes - finding calling and chemistry 05:25 – Why Transitions Fail: The danger of pride and panic hires 07:12 – Building vs. Self-Focus: Healthy transitions prioritize relationship 07:59 – Why Now?: Ron’s fourth quarter and finishing strong 09:28 – What CSO Really Means: The responsibility behind the title 10:52 – Where the Church Misses It: Lack of awareness and training in transitions 12:54 – Leaders Who Avoid Succession Planning: Fear, pride, and identity traps 14:19 – Joshua and Moses: Biblical blueprint for succession 15:40 – The Moment Ron Lives For: Seeing someone discover God’s purpose 17:40 – Why Millennials Give Him Hope: Community, transparency, and change 19:51 – Living Water: Why input must be matched with output 21:14 – Mentors + Influencers: The people who poured into Ron 24:38 – To the Board Members: What you're really accountable for 26:44 – How to Reach Ron: Email and conversations that start with coffee 28:00 – Final Words: Linking arms for Kingdom impact

If you’re in ministry and facing a career shift, don’t walk that road alone. Ministry Transitions exists to walk with you - through the letting go and into what’s next. Whether you're a pastor, a board member, or a nonprofit leader, now is the time to steward your transition well.

Visit ministrytransitions.com to access resources, connect with Ron, or schedule a confidential conversation today.