He calls her "retired" because she stays home with the kids. He sat in the car through the last hour of a kid's birthday party, then honked when he wanted to go. And every night, her best friend gets the voice memos.

This week's story comes from the friend. They've been close since college. She can't stand the husband, and her best friend keeps saying she's done with him, then posts an anniversary photo about how lucky she is. Now the friend's own kids don't want to go over there, and she's run out of things to say.

Dr. Brittany Woolford and Dr. Mallaree Blake get into why "stay together for the kids" might be the wrong call, why cruelty mixed with affection is so hard to walk away from, and the one sentence to use the next time he puts her down in front of you. Plus whether you can tell a friend you're done hearing about her husband, how to bring up what your kids are seeing, and why you can go to therapy with your best friend.

Before the story: the difference between regret and remorse after an affair, and a famous statistic about relationships that start as affairs that turns out to have no study behind it.

If you've ever been the friend on the other end of those voice memos, this one's for you.

Have a story you can't tell your friends? Share it anonymously through this form or head to our Instagram bio (@ismyrelationshipnormal). We'll clean it up, so you can just get it out.

We're licensed psychologists, but this podcast isn't therapy, and we never use real client stories. If you or someone you love is in danger, call 911, or reach the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 (thehotline.org).

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

William M. Bumberry, PhD, Healing the Trauma of Infidelity: Powerful Skills for Rebuilding Trust and Attachment to Find Love, Commitment, and Intimacy Again (New Harbinger, 2025). ISBN 9781648485725.

Hall, J. A. (2019). How many hours does it take to make a friend? Journal of Social and Personal Relationships. About 50 hours to a casual friend, 90 to a friend, and more than 200 to a close friend.

https://news.ku.edu/2018/03/06/study-reveals-number-hours-it-takes-make-friend

Holt-Lunstad, Uchino, Smith, Cerny & Nealey-Moore (2003). Health Psychology. People who wore blood pressure monitors for three days had higher readings around friends they felt mixed about than around people they simply disliked.

https://news.byu.edu/news/nuances-interpersonal-relationships-influence-our-health-new-study-shows

Second Saturday divorce workshops from WIFE.org, for anyone considering, going through or finished with a divorce. And Leslie Garske of Garske Divorce Mediation, the Denver-area mediator Mallaree mentions.

https://www.secondsaturday.com

He's never yelled at her. So why does her stomach drop every time she needs to bring something up?

This week's story is a fight about once a month that always goes the same way. She walks in knowing exactly what hurt. Twenty minutes later she can't find her point, they're arguing about what she "actually said," and somehow she's the one apologizing. He's the calm one, the logical one, and he's been in therapy long enough to have the vocabulary.

Dr. Brittany Woolford and Dr. Mallaree Blake get into why "I'm just being logical" usually isn't, why the calm partner can be just as activated as the one crying, and the three-part move that leaves you comforting the person you came to with a complaint. Plus why you should never tell your partner they're gaslighting you (even when it fits), the trauma response almost nobody talks about, and where the line falls between a couple that fights badly and a relationship that has become emotionally abusive.

And to close on a lighter note: are you and your partner food divorced? Mallaree swears by it.

If you've ever walked out of a fight unable to remember what it was about, this one's for you.

Have a story you can't tell your friends? Share it anonymously through the form in our Instagram bio (@ismyrelationshipnormal). or use this link. We'll clean it up, so you can just get it out.

We're licensed psychologists, but this podcast isn't therapy, and we never use real client stories.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Dr. Ingrid Clayton, Fawning: Why the Need to Please Makes Us Lose Ourselves (G.P. Putnam's Sons, 2025). The book Brittany promised to link.

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/779579/fawning-by-dr-ingrid-clayton/9798217045327

DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender). Psychologist Jennifer Freyd's name for a common response to being held accountable.

https://www.jjfreyd.com/darvo

Esther Perel, "Would you rather be right or be married?" (Letters from Esther #43).

https://estherperel.com/blog/letters-from-esther-42-would-you-rather-be-right-or-be-married

The Gottman Institute, "The Four Horsemen: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling." Why contempt is the strongest predictor of divorce.

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

The Gottman Institute, "Physiological Self-Soothing." What flooding is, and why it's so hard to hear your partner once your heart rate passes about 100 beats per minute.

https://www.gottman.com/blog/weekend-homework-assignment-physiological-self-soothing/

The Gottman Institute, "Managing Conflict: Solvable vs. Perpetual Problems." The 69% finding we came back to from last week.

https://www.gottman.com/blog/managing-conflict-solvable-vs-perpetual-problems/

Roisman (2007). The psychophysiology of adult attachment relationships: Autonomic reactivity in marital and premarital interactions. Developmental Psychology. Partners with avoidant (dismissing) attachment looked calm during conflict conversations but showed heightened skin conductance, a sign of holding emotion in.

https://experts.umn.edu/en/publications/the-psychophysiology-of-adult-attachment-relationships-autonomic-/

Dozier & Kobak (1992). Psychophysiology in attachment interviews: Converging evidence for deactivating strategies. Child Development, 63(6), 1473–1480. The original skin-conductance finding.

Internal Family Systems (IFS), Richard Schwartz's "parts" model. No Bad Parts (Sounds True, 2021) is the easiest place to start.

https://ifs-institute.com/

https://www.soundstrue.com/products/no-bad-parts-1

Couples Therapy, the Showtime docuseries with Dr. Orna Guralnik, streaming on Paramount+.

https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/couples-therapy/

Psychology Today, "Can a 'Food Divorce' Help or Hurt Your Relationship?" (October 2026).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/a-funny-bone-to-pick/202610/can-a-food-divorce-help-or-hurt-your-relationship

OFF THE CLOCK

Bourbon & Beyond, Louisville, Kentucky.

https://www.bourbonandbeyond.com/

The Haunting of Bly Manor (Netflix).

Sarah J. Maas, A Court of Mist and Fury. Chapter 54, if you know, you know.