Inside Learning welcomes Eisner Award winning comics artist and San Francisco State University professor Nick Sousanis, whose Teachers College Columbia PhD dissertation was created entirely in comics and later published by Harvard University Press as The Unflattening. Nick and Aidan discuss drawing as a form of thinking and embodied learning, and Nick argues that AI-generated outputs can bypass the productive struggle where learning happens. He recounts a formative teaching moment when delayed textbooks revealed his students were learning most through making and play, which shaped his approach of "study and play." They explore doodling, movement and retention, productive failure and persistence, Rancière's The Ignorant Schoolmaster and self-directed learning, and how constraints can increase creativity through activities, copying and tracing for analysis. Nick also describes his ongoing work to make comics accessible for blind and low-vision readers through panels, conferences and adapted formats.

Find Nick and his work at https://spinweaveandcut.com

All of Nick's books on Amazon.ie https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Nick+Sousanis

Inside Learning is brought to you by the Learnovate Centre in Trinity College Dublin. Find out more about Learnovate's research on the science of learning and the future of work at https://learnovatecentre.org

00:00 Learnovate Intro 00:13 Meet Nick Sousanis 02:03 Textbooks Never Arrived 04:37 Embodied Thinking 08:29 Doodling Boosts Learning 10:49 Struggle and Practice 12:24 Rancière Self Teaching 15:49 Constraints Set You Free 18:47 Process Over Talent 21:02 Completion Based Grading 25:44 Tracing and Copying 29:27 Accessible Comics Project 37:09 Where to Find Nick 40:55 Learnovate Outro

Nick Sousanis

Unflattening https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Unflattening+Nick+Sousanis

With Great Power Comes Great Pedagogy (eds. Susan Kirtley, Antero Garcia, Peter Carlson) https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=With+Great+Power+Comes+Great+Pedagogy

Mentioned in this episode

The Ignorant Schoolmaster by Jacques Rancière https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=The+Ignorant+Schoolmaster+Ranciere

The Gift of Dyslexia by Ronald D. Davis https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=The+Gift+of+Dyslexia+Ronald+Davis

Tinker Dabble Doodle Try by Srini Pillay https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Tinker+Dabble+Doodle+Try+Srini+Pillay

Productive Failure by Manu Kapur https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Productive+Failure+Manu+Kapur

Eunoia by Christian Bök https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Eunoia+Christian+Bok

99 Ways to Tell a Story by Matt Madden https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=99+Ways+to+Tell+a+Story+Matt+Madden

Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Understanding+Comics+Scott+McCloud

Green Eggs and Ham by Dr. Seuss https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Green+Eggs+and+Ham+Dr+Seuss

Scratch (DVD, dir. Doug Pray) https://www.amazon.ie/s?k=Scratch+Doug+Pray+DVD

The World Economic Forum named cognitive flexibility a top workplace skill. Then we started outsourcing our thinking to AI — and losing it.

Inside Learning welcomes Waqas Ahmed, author of The Polymath, to discuss why cognitive flexibility is a crucial workplace skill and how outsourcing thinking to AI can erode it. Ahmed defines cognitive flexibility as both the ability to shift between domains and a higher-order capacity to handle complex, ill-structured situations, emphasising versatility as sustained adaptability amid accelerating change.

The conversation critiques modern siloed education and work cultures that push specialisation, contrasting them with more holistic, transdisciplinary approaches. Ahmed outlines his work with organisations to build two polymath competencies — versatility (a portfolio of skills and meta-learning to reduce resistance to change) and integration (breaking silo culture through interdisciplinary collaboration and interactional expertise).

He argues current LLMs tend toward safe, convergent outputs and describes the Da Vinci AI project aimed at provoking divergent, human-led creativity.

In this conversation, Waqas reveals:

• The two-tier definition of cognitive flexibility — and why Rand Spiro's "ill-structured domains" version matters most at work
• Why versatility beats agility: adapting once is easy, adapting consistently is the skill
• How pre-Renaissance thinkers were transdisciplinary by default — and how we built the silos
• Multidisciplinary vs interdisciplinary vs transdisciplinary — and why most "multidisciplinary teams" are still guarding their turf
• Why transformation projects fail: resistance to change is a legacy of specialisation
• The 1800s factory manager test — why meditation went from "doing nothing" to a productivity tool
• The two polymath competencies Waqas builds in organisations: versatility and integration
• What "interactional expertise" is — knowing enough to ask an expert a meaningful question
• Why today's LLMs converge on the statistical mean — and what the Da Vinci AI project is doing differently
• Why radical innovation comes from synthesising diverse perspectives

Chapters:

00:00 Podcast Intro Learnovate

00:15 Why Cognitive Flexibility

02:01 Defining Flexibility and Versatility

05:06 Specialisation vs Polymath Mindset

06:40 From Renaissance to Transdisciplinary

10:11 Workplace Resistance and Side Projects

11:37 Culture Shift and Productivity Myths

16:38 AI Time and Polymath Skills

20:07 Integration Beats Silo Culture

23:43 Limits of LLMs and Divergent Thinking

26:15 Da Vinci AI and Human Creativity

28:07 Wrap Up Where to Find Waqas

29:04 Closing Credits Learnovate

Find Waqas:

The Polymath: Unlocking the Power of Human Versatility (Wiley) https://www.davinci-network.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/waqaspolymath

About Waqas Ahmed Waqas Ahmed is the author of The Polymath: Unlocking the Power of Human Versatility (Wiley) and founder of the DaVinci Network, a global movement dedicated to unlocking the many-sided potential of humans. A recognised authority on multidisciplinary thinking, his work spans art, neuroscience and international affairs. He works with organisations and their leadership teams to build the polymath competencies of versatility and integration.

About Inside Learning Inside Learning dives into learning science and the future of work, featuring learning experts from around the world each month. Topics span AI, neurodiversity, creativity, unlearning, leadership, ethics, VR, blended learning, performance, and skills. The podcast is designed to make you think, question and learn. Hosted by author, consultant and Keynote Speaker on Innovation Aidan McCullen, Inside Learning is produced by Learnovate, the future-of-work and learning research centre based at Trinity College Dublin and funded by Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland.

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