When democracy and authoritarianism go to war, the easy story is about good guys and bad guys. Daniel Bookman doesn't tell that story — but he comes close, and that's where this conversation gets interesting. Bookman is the author of Beyond Power, a philosophical framework for understanding how ethical societies form, why authoritarian regimes can't tolerate democratic neighbors, and what that means for the conflicts in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and inside the United States right now. His argument is serious and principled. It's also the kind of framework that explains a great deal — maybe too much. Host Paula Lehman-Ewing pushes on the places it strains: what happens when democratic leaders start behaving like the authoritarians they oppose? How long can existential threat justify behavior that contradicts a society's own ethical claims? Bookman doesn't dismiss the questions. But his answers leave something unresolved. That's the point.

You can find Beyond Power: Israel & The Struggle for the Ethical State

on Amazon using this LINK.

Note: There will not be a new episode next week as we are preparing for our second LIVE show. If you're in the greater Denver metro area, we hope you'll join us at Denver Book Society Sunday, April 26 at 3pm. More information about the event can be found at tinyurl.com/COJA-live2.

Can you change policing from the inside — or does the system just absorb you? That's the question retired NYPD lieutenant and highest-ranking whistleblower in department history Edwin Raymond has been living inside for years. This episode 4 of Get Me to the Gray was originally recorded live at Tattered Cover in Denver — now released with a host intro and outro that weren't there the first time. The world has caught up to this conversation. When we recorded it, ICE enforcement was something Denver was bracing for. Now it's something people are living through. Edwin and host Paula Lehman-Ewing cover prosecutorial power, restorative justice, cosmetic diversity in police reform, broken windows policing, and what the numbers out of New York actually show when a DA decides to use that office differently. They don't land in the same place. Neither will you.

This episode sets the stage for those questions to be asked more directly. We'll be doing just that on Sunday, April 26 at Tattered Cover (Colfax) when Get Me to the Gray hosts its second live event of the season with District Attorney Alexis King. Ticket proceeds from the April 26th Alexis King event benefit GRASP Denver.

Come be in the room. Register on Eventbrite.

What does it take to stay friends with someone you've disagreed with politically for decades — and keep showing up anyway?

With host Paula Lehman-Ewing away on a reporting trip, COJA Marketing Director Jamie Konegni sits down with his longtime friend, Jimmy Panepinto. In this midseason palette cleanser, Jamie and Jimmy, who have clashed on politics, policy, and principle for as long as they've known each other, talk through why they're still in it. Still talking. Still laughing.

In a moment when political difference has become a reason to cut people off, this episode asks a quieter question: what do we lose when we stop having the hard conversations — and what do we gain when we don't?

Get Me to the Gray is a podcast about the space between certainty and complexity. New episodes drop weekly.