Deric Cheng is Director of Research at the Windfall Trust. He joins the podcast to discuss how AI could reshape the social contract and global economy. The conversation examines labor displacement, superstar firms, and extreme wealth concentration, and asks how policy can keep workers empowered. We discuss resilient job types, new tax and welfare systems, global coordination, and a long-term vision where economic security is decoupled from work.

LINKS:

• Deric Cheng personal website

• AGI Social Contract project site

• Guiding society through the AI economic transition

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:01) Introducing Derek and AGI

(04:09) Automation, power, and inequality

(08:55) Inequality, unrest, and time

(13:46) Bridging futurists and economists

(20:35) Future of work scenarios

(27:22) Jobs resisting AI automation

(36:57) Luxury, land, and inequality

(43:32) Designing and testing solutions

(51:23) Taxation in an AI economy

(59:10) Envisioning a post-AGI society

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org

Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org

Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/

Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Oly Sourbut is a researcher at the Future of Life Foundation. He joins the podcast to discuss AI for human reasoning. We examine tools that use AI to strengthen human judgment, from collective fact-checking and scenario planning to standards for honest AI reasoning and better coordination. We also discuss how we can keep humans central as AI scales, and what it would take to build trustworthy, society-wide sensemaking.

LINKS:

• FLF organization site
• Oly Sourbut personal site

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:03) FLF and human reasoning

(08:21) Agents and epistemic virtues

(22:16) Human use and atrophy

(35:41) Abstraction and legible AI

(47:03) Demand, trust and Wikipedia

(57:21) Map of human reasoning

(01:04:30) Negotiation, institutions and vision

(01:15:42) How to get involved

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org

Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org

Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/

Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Nora Ammann is a technical specialist at the Advanced Research and Invention Agency in the UK. She joins the podcast to discuss how to steer a slow AI takeoff toward resilient and cooperative futures. We examine risks of rogue AI and runaway competition, and how scalable oversight, formal guarantees and secure code could support AI-enabled R&D and critical infrastructure. Nora also explains AI-supported bargaining and public goods for stability.

LINKS:

• Nora Ammann site
• ARIA safeguarded AI program page
• AI Resilience official site
• Gradual Disempowerment website

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Episode Preview

(01:00) Slow takeoff expectations

(08:13) Domination versus chaos

(17:18) Human-AI coalitions vision

(28:14) Scaling oversight and agents

(38:45) Formal specs and guarantees

(51:10) Resilience in AI era

(01:02:21) Defense-favored cyber systems

(01:10:37) AI-enabled bargaining and trade

PRODUCED BY:

https://aipodcast.ing

SOCIAL LINKS:

Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org

Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org

Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/

Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP