Most of the time, I'm hoping my guest will be a great one to have on the podcast, but with director + editor Sara Barger, I knew. She was an instructor as part of my documentary certificate program -- COVID killed the program -- but I got so much out of her thought process on how to make films. So when I saw her name listed prominently on the poster as the editor for her new film, DAD GENES, I knew I'd love to have her on the pod. I'm glad she agreed.

As you hear in the intro, we talk about women in film and the lack of representation, as Sara served as president of Women in Film & Video, and through our conversation, I say she's forceful...because she is. But as I came up with that intro, I reflected on that: is that an attribute I'd give some guy? No. Because he'd be just being a guy.

So a better way of putting it is Sara is how all people should be in film, regardless of gender: fierce advocates for their art.

In this conversation, Sara and I discuss:

• her name being next to the director and producer on the poster;
• the story of DAD GENES and what the premiere was like in NYC;
• how she got her start in filmmaking;
• should directors know how to edit?;
• do you need to have a forceful personality to be a great editor?;
• looking back on her film, LITTLE BUT FIERCE (2020), and what she learned from it;
• finding issue areas to pursue as a documentary filmmaker;
• the quick 60 minute+ run time and her support for short feature docs;
• whether she loves the producing job -- on ads, yes; on films, no;
• progress on women in film;
• what's next for her and innovation in political advertising.

Sara's Indie Film Highlights: THE SOCIAL DILEMMA (2020) dir. by Jeff Orlowski; THE GREAT HACK (2019) dir. by Karim Amer and Jehane Noujaim; THE LAUNDROMAT (2019) dir. by Steven Soderbergh

Memorable Quotes:

"I don't think most people realize this, but when it comes to documentary filmmaker, the editor does a lot more than just piecing it together."

"It was my first time seeing it with an audience. It was my first time seeing it on a screen larger than my laptop. And so I kept being like, oh my God, it looks so good. It sounds good. Okay, this is like a real movie."

"I was the kid who was making all the neighborhood kids perform in backyard plays for our parents growing up."

"The best people on set are the ones who know how to do everyone's jobs."

"Yeah, I can edit this film, but you have to let me do my job."

"When I'm in pain, when my back goes out, there's not enough weed on this planet."

"The second you stop recording is when they say something amazing."

"I have a ADHD, I'm like, come on man. We gotta keep this moving."

Links:

Sara Barger's Website

Watch LITTLE BUT FIERCE (2020)

It shouldn't surprise you that somebody who is out looking for "weird stories that connect and resonate" would direct DAD GENES (2026), the film about a sperm donor meeting his biological children. Craig Downing has been around the world looking for great stories and when he finds one, he sticks to it, no matter the time it takes to tell. DAD GENES took almost 7 years from idea to festival fruition, and that's a big credit to his team. Matt Isaac did a fantastic job producing as well as developing a festival schedule -- the film had its world premiere at Dances With Films NYC -- and Sara Barger put all this together with phenomenal editing skills.

I know Sara -- she was one of the excellent instructors at my George Washington documentary film certificate program -- and the kind of teamwork that puts the three of their names together on the poster for DAD GENES is the kind of team I want to have on the show. I'll talk with Sara for the next episode.

DAD GENES is a film that's worth a close look, for what it says about American society and the tremendous team that put it together.

In this episode, Craig and I discuss:

• the crazy over half-a-decade path to making the film;
• how he got started in filmmaking -- as a kindergarten teacher! -- and then off to Latin America and Iceland filming messaging videos for non-profits;
• if people have to go the influencer router versus what he did to get started;
• what brought him to documentary?
• the story of DAD GENES and what people should expect when they watch;
• how they took seven years of footage and made it understandable;
• the improvement of his skillset as filming went on;
• the state of documentary and the quick ruintime;
• what he's working on next.

Craig's Indie Film Highlight: POW WOW (2016) dir. by Robinson Devor

Memorable Quotes:

"And Matt [the producer of DAD GENES] called me and he was like, hey Greg, do you know any directors that might be interested in working on this? And I was like, yeah, Matt, me."

"If I took a video of someone walking out of Trader Joe's with avocados, they'd be like that's a pretty good shot, Craig, whatever. But if I took the exact same context of someone walking out of a Guatemalan market with a bag of avocados, you're like, whoa, that's amazing."

"It is not necessarily just documentary, it's for me...where is the story?"

"My producer and publicist is we gotta tell 'em something about the movie or that they're not gonna know what's going on. Yeah, okay, that's fair, but don't play all the cards."

"I felt like if you watch this movie, you see the development and the maturity of my ability to make interviews happen."

"I think the runtime will be dictated by the story."

Links:

DAD GENES Website

Follow Craig Downing On Instagram

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: SOULEYMANE'S STORY (2024)

Director: Boris Lojkine

Writer: Boris Lojkine; Delphine Agut

Cast: Abou Sangare; Alpha Oumar Sow; Nina Meurisse

SYNOPSIS

Souleymane, an asylum-seeking cyclist who delivers meals in Paris, has only two days to prepare for a crucial interview. This interview will determine his residence permit status.

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Filmmaker Jeffrey Roth has never shied away from intriguing topics, looking to find the humanity behind some of the world's most influential stories: the Apollo astronauts, vice presidents of the United States, or a famed Egyptologist like he does in THE MAN WITH THE HAT (2026). He brings an eye for the story, not the politics, and that's what makes him an amazing filmmaker .

In this episode, Jeffrey and I discuss:

• what's the best way to describe his newest film;
• how he got started in filmmaking;
• why he's interested in the human element of history;
• film in documentaries and his view on hybrid docs and re-enactments;
• the political environment and reaction if he announced he was doing a documentary on any sort of figure today versus when he did 41 (2012);
• the wild and bold story of how he secured the ability to make THE MAN WITH THE HAT;
• what he owes a subject as a documentarian;
• how he structured THE MAN WITH THE HAT;
• the name of the film and how he chooses topics;
• what's next for him.

Jeffrey's Indie Film Highlight: FOR ALL MANKIND (1989) dir. by Al Reinert

Memorable Quotes:

"It's always one step ahead of you then where you really think that you should be."

"I was with a buddy at a an event with these Apollo astronauts and we were just sitting around listening to them. And somebody had just mentioned it would be very interesting to see and watch a story about who they are as opposed to the science or the technology."

"41 is not how to love or hate a Republican. It's about a story and a man...who happened to become president."

"I would rather go to Egypt and shoot the antiquities there and shoot it either artistically, stylistically, whatever you wanna call it rather than get on a set."

"I don't think the [political atmosphere] has changed. I would say it's probably heightened."

"They made a big event with George and Barbara, with eight Apollo astronauts, six of the guys that walked on the moon in this one event. We showed the room and I walked out of there that night thinking I'll never see this guy again. But that was fun."

"I owe them respect. I owe them honesty and to try to let them know really what the goal is. I don't want to tell them too much about what I'm trying to do. Because I don't want them to think about it. I want to...try to get the real person if I can. So when I'm sitting in an interview situation, I do not like to give the questions in advance."

"I don't like to put somebody's name or really hit home to make the title too specific to what you're doing."

Links:

Watch THE MAN WITH THE HAT (2026)

Follow THE MAN WITH THE HAT

Watch This Episode On YouTube

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: TO THE WONDER (2012)

Director: Terrence Malick

Writer: Terrence Malick

Cast: Ben Affleck; Olga Kurylenko; Javier Bardem

SYNOPSIS

After falling in love in Paris, Marina and Neil come to Oklahoma, where problems arise. Their church's Spanish-born pastor struggles with his faith, while Neil encounters a woman from his childhood.

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Every once in awhile, I talk with someone who completely changes how I view independent filmmaking and those creating the most inventive films. Lately, that was writer/director/dancer Sam Mandich, whose work was influenced by her beginnings in dance. When you watch her films, it all makes sense -- the spare movement and the focused direction -- it comes from her amazingly unique background.

An experimental dance film? A psychological coming of age horror? Sign me up for the next few years of Sam Mandich's work. What an astonishing person and I'm so glad to talk with her today for the pod.

In this episode, Sam and I discuss:

• how dance informs her filmmaking;
• the amazing through-line in dance, conformity, and coming of age stories;
• what she got out of attending incredibly selective programs like the Paris College of Art and the American Film Institute;
• why she was selected by her peers at programs like these for higher honors and how it relates back to dance;
• the signs that people handled selective opportunities poorly;
• the simplicity -- and complexity -- of her latest works like JIA (2025) and ANGELS;
• her work on a new experimental dance film (!!);
• what it is like for her directing other peoples' projects;
• how she developed her writing skills and working on a script she didn't write;
• the fact that coming of age stories have become more immediately told and what that means for the future;
• the various stages of release for her films and the emphasis of top film schools on festivals;
• what Square Peg Social was like for her;
• what's next.

Sam's Indie Film Highlight: MA (2015) dir. by Celia Rowlson Hall

Memorable Quotes:

"when I was living in New York and commuting everywhere with my headphones on, suddenly everyone's a dancer."

"With dance, it's so interesting because it's an art that's about honing in on your personal craft, and how your singular way of expression feels."

"Going back to dance, there's been so many times where you're thrown into environments where you don't know anyone and you're immediately expected to be open and soft and receive like people's most vulnerable stories and then tell them through your own body."

"All of these experiences I've been reflecting on so much when I'm doing...I try to journal every morning and try to understand why I am feeling the way I'm feeling about something."

"Even though art is so personal, it's really healthy to try to not take things personally."

"Directing is a pretty lonely profession...so I think for certain stories, I'm really drawn to collaboration for that sense."

"Working on my own scripts, there is a certain vulnerability that comes with the solitude of that...manifests in the story as well."

"When you're choosing to make a film with someone, you're choosing to be in a relationship with them. So it's it's a little bit of you. It's a little bit of me, and we figure it out together."

"Coming of age can happen at any age."

Links:

Follow Sam On Instagram

Sam Mandich's Website

Every Sunday, I'll post a quick video -- and podcast -- about an indie film from at least a year ago. Today's film: THE END OF THE TOUR (2015)

Director: James Ponsoldt

Screenplay: Donald Margulies

Cast: Jason Segal; Jesse Eisenberg

SYNOPSIS

David Lipsky, a reporter with the Rolling Stone magazine, interviews acclaimed novelist David Foster Wallace for five days, during which they form a unique bond.

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