For the first time on record, experience-based tenants — spas, gyms, wellness studios, entertainment venues — are outpacing traditional goods retailers in leasing shopping center space, with wellness and fitness leading the charge. Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas unpack what this shift actually means: it is not just a retail story, it is confirmation that the transformation economy Joe predicted more than two decades ago has arrived.
The conversation traces the arc from malls to experiential anchors, examines why some brands (Red Bull) rode the wave and others (Nike) missed it, and lands on a provocation for any company still selling goods: if you want to sell products today, sell experiences. If you want to sell even more products, sell transformation.
Key Takeaways The bifurcation is accelerating. Post-COVID data from high-end luxury shows goods flattening or declining in price while experiences shot upward. The Economist's October feature on high-net-worth luxury quietly re-labeled "services" as "experiences" in its TikTok follow-up — a small edit that tells the whole story.
Experiential venues are the new anchors. The old mall anchor was a department store. The new anchor is an escape room cluster, a bowling alley that is really an entertainment complex, an NHL team's practice facility inside a converted suburban mall. Square footage is shifting toward places people want to spend time, not places they pass through.
Goods still sell — but best through the experience. Joe's story about the original Nike Town in Chicago captures the mistake most brands still make: Nike Town had a line out the door and did not charge admission. Over time, goods crept back into the floor space that used to belong to basketball courts and events. Red Bull took the opposite path and became an experience company that sells an energy drink. The trajectories diverged for a reason.
Experiences commoditize fast. SoulCycle opened a category; spin studios saturated it within a decade. The same glut is forming in spas and boutique gyms right now. The next move is specialization and bespoke combinations — and beyond that, transformation.
Transformation is the durable business model. Experiences are episodic. Transformations are long-term engagements, which makes them long-term revenue. Aransas frames the shift cleanly: not just time well spent, but time well invested. Companies that move from experience provider to journey partner earn a different kind of relationship — and a different kind of margin.
Social media is an experience platform. Influencers are in the experience business. Some investors will not touch a product today until the influencer strategy is nailed down. Advertising and packaging are shrinking as a share of how people discover and buy.
Memorable Moments - Joe's recap of his Monaco keynote at the Forbes Travel Guide Summit, where luxury goods manufacturers showed up because they are all getting into luxury experiences now
- The Nike Town queue that was not charging admission — and what it foreshadowed about Nike's retreat from flagship experiences
- Dave on the Utah Mammoth buying a suburban mall and turning most of the square footage into a place fans come to watch practice
- Aransas on walking out of a spa day carrying products because she had just seen, on her own face, what they actually do
- The throwaway that lands: "Gosh, we're smart."
The Strategic Question for Every Brand If you sell goods, where is your experiential venue — physical or virtual — and what transformation are you actually offering the customer who shows up? The brands that answer this well over the next five years will be the ones occupying the square footage the department stores used to hold.
Also In This Episode Aransas's Substack is now the 30th fastest-rising publication in Health and Wellness on the platform.
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Joe is heading out on book tour for The Transformation Economy. We will be back soon.
Apr 22 202619 min
21 min