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The Experience Strategy Podcast

The Experience Strategy Podcast

De : Dave Norton Aransas Savas and Joe Pine
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 With over 100 episodes, the Experience Strategy Podcast is that secret superpower that helps strategists around the world grow their business acumen. Your hosts, Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the most important topics in the business world, but they do it by focusing on the experiences and transformations that customers attain.2024 Economie Management Management et direction
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  • Why Spas and Gyms Are Beating Stores — and What It Signals About the Transformation Economy

    Why Spas and Gyms Are Beating Stores — and What It Signals About the Transformation Economy
    Apr 22 2026

    For the first time on record, experience-based tenants — spas, gyms, wellness studios, entertainment venues — are outpacing traditional goods retailers in leasing shopping center space, with wellness and fitness leading the charge. Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas unpack what this shift actually means: it is not just a retail story, it is confirmation that the transformation economy Joe predicted more than two decades ago has arrived.

    The conversation traces the arc from malls to experiential anchors, examines why some brands (Red Bull) rode the wave and others (Nike) missed it, and lands on a provocation for any company still selling goods: if you want to sell products today, sell experiences. If you want to sell even more products, sell transformation.

    Key Takeaways

    The bifurcation is accelerating. Post-COVID data from high-end luxury shows goods flattening or declining in price while experiences shot upward. The Economist's October feature on high-net-worth luxury quietly re-labeled "services" as "experiences" in its TikTok follow-up — a small edit that tells the whole story.

    Experiential venues are the new anchors. The old mall anchor was a department store. The new anchor is an escape room cluster, a bowling alley that is really an entertainment complex, an NHL team's practice facility inside a converted suburban mall. Square footage is shifting toward places people want to spend time, not places they pass through.

    Goods still sell — but best through the experience. Joe's story about the original Nike Town in Chicago captures the mistake most brands still make: Nike Town had a line out the door and did not charge admission. Over time, goods crept back into the floor space that used to belong to basketball courts and events. Red Bull took the opposite path and became an experience company that sells an energy drink. The trajectories diverged for a reason.

    Experiences commoditize fast. SoulCycle opened a category; spin studios saturated it within a decade. The same glut is forming in spas and boutique gyms right now. The next move is specialization and bespoke combinations — and beyond that, transformation.

    Transformation is the durable business model. Experiences are episodic. Transformations are long-term engagements, which makes them long-term revenue. Aransas frames the shift cleanly: not just time well spent, but time well invested. Companies that move from experience provider to journey partner earn a different kind of relationship — and a different kind of margin.

    Social media is an experience platform. Influencers are in the experience business. Some investors will not touch a product today until the influencer strategy is nailed down. Advertising and packaging are shrinking as a share of how people discover and buy.

    Memorable Moments
    • Joe's recap of his Monaco keynote at the Forbes Travel Guide Summit, where luxury goods manufacturers showed up because they are all getting into luxury experiences now
    • The Nike Town queue that was not charging admission — and what it foreshadowed about Nike's retreat from flagship experiences
    • Dave on the Utah Mammoth buying a suburban mall and turning most of the square footage into a place fans come to watch practice
    • Aransas on walking out of a spa day carrying products because she had just seen, on her own face, what they actually do
    • The throwaway that lands: "Gosh, we're smart."
    The Strategic Question for Every Brand

    If you sell goods, where is your experiential venue — physical or virtual — and what transformation are you actually offering the customer who shows up? The brands that answer this well over the next five years will be the ones occupying the square footage the department stores used to hold.

    Also In This Episode

    Aransas's Substack is now the 30th fastest-rising publication in Health and Wellness on the platform.

    Subscribe, Share, Comment

    If this conversation sparked something, share it with a colleague and leave a comment. We read them. And subscribe to the Substack for the written companion to the show.

    Joe is heading out on book tour for The Transformation Economy. We will be back soon.
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    19 min
  • AI Twins and the Future of Research

    AI Twins and the Future of Research
    Apr 2 2026
    AI Twins and the Future of Research The Experience Strategy Podcast Episode Overview Two Wall Street Journal articles are making waves in the market research world — one asking whether AI can replace human research participants, and another profiling a teenage-founded startup called Aura that's already attracted McDonald's and EY. Dave, Joe, and Aransas bring their combined decades of consumer research experience to the question everyone in insights is quietly asking: is this the end of primary research, or the beginning of something more powerful? What We Cover The two WSJ articles at the center of this conversation The first covers Simile, a startup building agentic AI twins modeled on real people for polling and market research. The second profiles Aura, a company founded by people younger than Aransas's high schooler, betting that AI bots can predict human behavior better than humans themselves. Dave's evolving reaction — Worry, skepticism, and then possibility His first instinct was worry. Stone Mantel has built its practice on deep consumer research, and the promise of AI twins that can answer with 0.5% accuracy at first felt wrong. But the more he sat with it, the more he saw a useful analogy: flight simulators. Simulators serve a real purpose as long as everyone is clear they are not the same as flying the actual plane. The critical flaw in current AI twin models Both Dave and Joe land on the same problem independently: AI twins are built on static preferences and demographic profiles. They treat people as if behavior is fixed — "this is how soccer moms respond" — when the entire premise of situational research is that behavior shifts with context. What mode is the person in? What situation are they navigating? Those questions are not being asked. Joe puts it plainly: they didn't ask anything about modes. Where AI twins might actually work well Trend prediction and aggregate market analysis are reasonable use cases. If you want to know whether fruit-flavored tea is about to have a moment, AI models scanning historical purchasing data and cultural signals can probably get you there. The harder problem — and the more valuable one — is understanding what a specific person cares about in a specific moment, and that requires something current AI twins are not equipped to provide. What AI twins could become with better design Dave raises an intriguing possibility: after completing primary research with a real consumer, could that data become the seed for ongoing simulation and modeling? Not as a replacement for the research, but as a way to extend its value across time and decisions. He also flags the bias risk — every feedback loop that improves AI accuracy may also drift it further from the original human signal. Joe's Wall-E scenario The Terminator isn't Joe's fear. Wall-E is. Personal language models hanging out in your Alexa, learning everything you say and do, eventually making purchasing decisions on your behalf — and research shifting to focus on the PLM rather than the person. The result: consumers with no agency, led entirely by AI intermediaries and the consumer goods companies they serve. The consent problem CBS claimed 400,000 people opted in to being replicated as AI twins. Aransas is skeptical — and direct. That was some very fine print. Companies building AI twin programs need to be serious about how they are collecting this data, not just technically compliant. Key Idea If AI can actually predict behavior change, it is no longer a tool — it is strategy. That quote, attributed to a Coca-Cola executive in the second article, captures what is at stake. Dave frames it through the lens of superpowers: AI gives companies the ability to do things they could not do otherwise. The question is whether the thing they are doing actually reflects how real humans behave. Continue the Conversation Join Dave, Joe, and Aransas on The Experience Strategist Substack to go deeper on this episode's themes.
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    22 min
  • Something Big Is Happening — And Experience Strategists Need a Point of View on AI

    Something Big Is Happening — And Experience Strategists Need a Point of View on AI
    Feb 26 2026
    The Experience Strategy Podcast | substack.theexperiencestrategist.com A post on X went viral — 38,000 reshares, 83 million reads. Written by respected AI voice Matt Schumer, it opens with a gut-punch analogy: think back to February 2020. Most of us weren't paying attention to a virus spreading overseas. Then in three weeks, everything changed. Schumer's argument is that we are in a similar "this seems overblown" phase right now — except what's coming is bigger than COVID. Dave, Joe, and Aransas dig into the article, push back where it's overblown, and land on what experience strategists actually need to do about it. What's in This Episode The article's core argument. AI isn't just getting better — it's getting faster, more capable at complex tasks, and increasingly independent of human involvement. The latest models are now building and debugging the next version of themselves. Schumer's point: no matter how complex or human your job feels, it's getting closer to AI's reach by the millisecond, not the minute. What Schumer says to do about it — and the team's reaction: Use AI seriously. Don't dabble. Understand what it can actually do.Get your financial house in order. This isn't the time to be overextended.Lean into what's hardest to replace. Anything you do primarily on a screen is likely a 1–2 year exposure.Rethink what you're telling your kids. Their dreams just got closer — and the path there looks different.Get in the habit of adapting now, not when you're forced to. Joe's take: good prescription, overblown description. AI is a tool, and no technology in history has eliminated more jobs than it created. The real question is mindset: executives who come to AI asking "how do I automate people out?" will find exactly that. Executives who ask "how do I augment my people?" will find something much more powerful in the human-plus-AI combination. The disruption, as with all disruptive innovation, starts at the bottom of the value chain and moves up — which means you need to be working above it. The echo chamber problem. Joe raises a concern that's already documented: AI increasingly trains on AI output, creating what researchers are calling model collapse — a cyclical echo chamber where biases get replicated and amplified rather than corrected. The telephone game at civilizational scale. Aransas connects this to the show Pluribus, which she found boring as a narrative but compelling as a metaphor for hive-mind homogenization. What experience strategists specifically need right now — three points from Dave: Provenance. As AI commoditizes outputs, original sources become more valuable, not less. If you're building consumer insights without actually talking to consumers, you're already three steps from provenance. The strategists who can signal authentic, original sourcing will be disproportionately valuable. Cross-disciplinary thinking. Experience strategists have been operating too narrowly — personas, journey maps, CX mechanics. AI gives you superpowers across marketing, planning, and adjacent disciplines. Use them. Going deeper on the same narrow lane is the wrong direction. A strategic point of view. Not an opinion. A point of view. The difference: a POV is grounded in a real perspective on where things are headed and what companies should do about it. Joe's Transformation Economy is the model. Right now, the most defensible experience POV is transformation — because transformation is the economic offering most deeply dependent on human expertise, authentic relationships, and the kind of curated AI deployment that actually requires strategic judgment. The era of typos and texture. Aransas's 15-year-old put it well: right now, the most human signal is imperfection. Messy feelings, quirky punctuation, genuine awkwardness — these are becoming markers of authenticity in a world of smoothed-out AI output. The demand for what feels genuinely human is rising alongside the supply of what doesn't. Key Quotes "Knowledge work has changed forever. That is going to be a rough adjustment for all of us — and all experience strategists are knowledge workers." — Dave Norton "If you come with the mindset of how can I get rid of people, you'll find ways to get rid of people. But if you come with a mindset of how this augments my people's skills and makes them better — you'll be amazed at what human plus AI can do." — Joe Pine "Provenance is going to become more and more important. The inputs have to be better. Original data, original source — how do you get to that?" — Dave Norton "The most defensible experience point of view you can have right now is probably transformation — because it's the one built on technology and human expertise together." — Aransas Savas "This isn't a sit-on-our-hands-and-wait situation. This is a get-engaged situation." — Aransas Savas Referenced "Something Big Is Happening" by Matt Schumer — [https://x.com/mattshumer_/status/2021256989876109403]...
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    25 min
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