What happens when crypto stops optimizing purely for profit and starts optimizing for people, planet, and long-term coordination?

In this episode, Amanda Cassatt sits down with Gitcoin founder Kevin Owocki to discuss Ethereum’s public goods, swallowing the Green Pill, and what onchain coordination will look like in the future.

Owocki maps the cultural fault lines inside Ethereum: the libertarian and cypherpunk roots, the rise of hyper-financialized degen culture, and the parallel effort to build something different: a regenerative ecosystem that funds public goods, sustains open source, and solves coordination failures instead of reproducing them.

The two unpack what Green Pill really means and the choice it asks of builders, how Gitcoin funded $70 million in public goods and why grants and vibes aren’t enough anymore.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction to Regen and Degen

02:57 The Green Pill Movement

06:13 Public Goods in Ethereum

09:10 Funding Challenges in the Ethereum Ecosystem

12:07 Comparing Ethereum to Traditional Governments

15:00 The Evolution of Public Goods Funding

17:48 Incentive Alignment and the Tragedy of the Commons

21:04 Building Proofs for Public Goods

24:11 Ethereum's Unique Approach to Public Goods

26:48 Meditations on Moloch and Coordination Failures

29:39 Exploring Moloch and Ginsberg's Influence

30:04 Addressing Coordination Failures in Ethereum

34:48 The Future of Capitalism and Its Alternatives

39:40 Balancing Different Forms of Capital

45:03 Navigating Financial Nihilism Among Youth

47:41 Success Stories in Building Parallel Institutions

Subscribe to Endgame: https://www.youtube.com/@endgamepodcast

Kevin on X: https://x.com/owocki

Amanda on X: https://x.com/amandacassatt

Serotonin on X: https://x.com/serotonin

Endgame on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6iSvbKOJWoEPiAoGmiulkd

Endgame on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/endgame-with-amanda-cassatt/id1801809440

Substack: https://substack.com/@UCInZsV3L1nDGoFjxoNUnPQQ

Crypto was supposed to be the escape hatch. So why does it increasingly feel like it’s being absorbed by the very systems it set out to challenge?

In this candid conversation, Amanda Cassatt sits down with cyberpunk crypto lawyer Gabriel Shapiro about the “fintech-ization” of crypto, where the industry stands in the post-Gary Gensler era and the fading relevance of the four-year cycle.

Is crypto a tool for resisting power, or just a more efficient version of traditional finance waiting to be regulated into submission?

Regulation isn’t a complete negative for the space; Gabriel believes that certain aspects, such as antitrust law, are beneficial. But while some laws age like a fine wine, others aren’t as relevant as technology evolves.

Amanda and Gabriel also discussed KYC and how it’s evolving, zero-knowledge proofs, and what Tornado Cash did wrong.

Timestamps:

00:00 Current State of Crypto and Market Cycles

02:53 The Debate on Decentralization vs. Centralization

05:47 The Role of Government and Regulation in Crypto

08:43 Crypto as an Alternative to Traditional Legal Systems

11:49 The Impact of Incumbent Protection on Innovation

15:03 The Future of Crypto in a Regulated Environment

17:51 The Importance of Privacy and Programmability in Crypto

26:18 The Imperative of Privacy in Crypto

34:52 Navigating Legal Compliance and Privacy

39:41 The Dilemma of Civil Disobedience

46:24 The Future of KYC in Crypto

48:40 Zero Knowledge Technology and Its Potential

Is crypto’s biggest rival artificial intelligence?

As AI absorbs talent and capital, it’s not clear yet if crypto and AI are competing or converging but crypto’s focus on human agency may matter more than ever in an automated world.

Amanda Cassatt is joined by Aaron Wright, crypto lawyer, former Wikia general counsel and CEO of Tribute Labs, to unpack the battle between crypto and AI and what the explosive growth of stablecoins actually means for the U.S. dollar as both institutions and corporations look to gain exposure to crypto.

Outside of the technological battle we’re seeing, Aaron believes we’re also undergoing a structural shift that’ll see the separation of the U.S. dollar from U.S. banks. He discusses the slow erosion of smaller national currencies, and the rise of open, permissionless financial infrastructure that anyone can access. What looks incremental today may ultimately reshape who controls money and how power flows in a dollar-dominated world.

The conversation spans across artificial intelligence, dollar hegemony, central bank authority, as well as the growing divide between institutional crypto and the onchain “trenches.”

Timestamps:

00:00 – Cold Open: Stablecoins and the End of Dollar Hegemony

05:00 – Splitting the Dollar from the Banks

10:00 – Do Stablecoins Weaken Central Banks?

15:00 – Should Local Currencies Even Exist?

20:00 – The Paradox of American Decline

25:00 – Regulation, Law, and Crypto’s Lost Years

30:00 – Institutional Crypto vs. the Trenches

35:00 – Is Crypto Still About Technology?

40:00 – AI vs. Crypto

45:00 – Open Systems, Wikipedia, and Internet Decay

50:00 – KYC, Surveillance, and Enshittification

55:00 – Identity, Reputation, and ZK Proofs

1:00:00 – Crypto’s Endgame: Human Agency

Resources:

Follow Aaron Wright @awrigh01 https://x.com/awrigh01

Learn more about Aaron's work: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=2373233

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Amanda on X: https://x.com/amandacassatt

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Endgame on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6iSvbKOJWoEPiAoGmiulkd

Endgame on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/endgame-with-amanda-cassatt/id1801809440

Substack: https://substack.com/@UCInZsV3L1nDGoFjxoNUnPQQ