"There needs to be suffering": Jim Hamilton talks to the Maclean Brothers about doing hard things .

Men are all the same in looking for value, belonging, and doing hard things.

That was one of the key takeaways from the Maclean Brothers’ conversation with ex-rugby legend and now podcast heavyweight Jim Hamilton.

After a glittering rugby career - winning the European Champions Cup, two Premiership titles, captaining Gloucester, and earning 64 caps for Scotland - Jim has built a second career as one of the giants of podcasting with The Rugby Pod and The Big Jim Show.

The brothers connected with Jim mid-Pacific, learning from a big fish of podcasting while still out at sea. Jim opened up about life after rugby: the aggression and intensity of professional sport, how he replaces that with hard training, and why fitness remains the cornerstone of his mental health and identity.

In return, the brothers shared their reality after 131 days on the oars - the nutrition, recovery, and mindset needed to keep going on the world’s biggest ocean.

In this episode of Dinner with the Macleans, the brothers are joined by one of the most accomplished mountaineers in history - Kenton Cool, who’s summited Everest an astonishing 19 times.

Recorded from the middle of the Pacific Ocean, this is a rare crossover between the world’s highest peaks and deepest waters. From shift patterns and food rations to expedition morale and mental resilience, Kenton shares his hard-won philosophies on adventure, challenge, and how to keep going when the darkness sets in.

There’s also talk of hair ties, freeze-dried reindeer stew, and why bagpipes might be the most surprising piece of expedition kit yet.

Former rugby legend and all-round legend Donncha O’Callaghan joins the Maclean Brothers from their boat in the Pacific for an episode full of laughs, life lessons, and the kind of wisdom only years on and off the pitch can bring.

They talk fatherhood, radical honesty, suffering (the good kind), and the power of showing up for others - whether on the field or in the middle of the ocean. Packed with heart, humour and inspiration, this one’s a proper belter.