How many people are in the sandwich generation? Until today, nobody knew.

The number: 2.43 million people aged 35–70 currently help or care for an ageing parent. This number is expected to rise to over 6 million within 10 years.

In this episode, Sarah Macdonald is joined by Melissa Reader (CEO of Vera and Commissioning Editor of Club Sandwich) to discuss Vera's new, nationally representative research conducted in partnership with YouGov. They explain why this group has been missing from major reports, and explore knock-on effects for carers' work and finances.

"People often aren't counting themselves," says Sarah. "They're not counting the labour of love they do as labour; they're seeing it as love. But if you can get help in that labour, then you've got more time to love."

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this bonus episode, Sarah Macdonald is joined by Melissa Reader to discuss new research into Australia's 'invisible army' of sandwich generation carers.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She was one of Sydney's best door bitches. Now she's CEO of Autism Australia.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode:
The Conversation: Sarah talks to Nicole Rogerson, CEO of Autism Australia and mother of Jack, about raising a neurodivergent child while also navigating ageing parents, undiagnosed traits in older relatives, and midlife self-diagnosis.
This Week's Hack: Make sure the kids are looked after, no matter what happens. Start legacy and estate planning early, regardless of how much the family has, and plan for the scenarios nobody wants to think about.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Raising a child with autism while caring for ageing parents
- Estate planning, trusts and guardianship for a disabled child's future
- Grandparents who show undiagnosed neurodivergent traits
- Midlife autism and ADHD diagnosis, and when a label actually helps
- Talking to neurodivergent loved ones about death and grief

Featured in this episode:
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Nicole Rogerson — CEO, Autism Australia.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music 'Club Sandwich' — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She used to let everyone else win. Now nobody's safe at bowls.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode: Sarah visits a dementia day programme run by ECH in Adelaide to meet Gina, who's living with dementia; her husband David; and daughters Marie and Michelle. Gina has become more competitive, more outgoing and more herself since her diagnosis. Vanessa Stanley-Gordon, who runs ECH's programmes, explains why that's not as unusual as it sounds.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Dementia day programmes as respite and quality of life
- Personality change after a dementia diagnosis, masking and early signs
- How relationships with pets can be an 'early warning system'
- Carer guilt, and why taking a break isn't abandonment
- Why vascular dementia isn't the worst news you can hear
- Commonwealth Home Support and user-pays access routes

Featured in this episode:
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Gina — Living with dementia, and thriving.
Marie and Michelle — Gina's daughters.
Vanessa Stanley-Gordon — Runs ECH's day programmes.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music 'Club Sandwich' — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stan Grant, journalist, author and Wiradjuri and Kamilaroi man, joins Sarah Macdonald to talk about caring for his ageing parents, why he sees himself as a 'provider, not a carer', and what eldership really means. Along the way, he shares the process behind his new book, visions of John Coltrane, and wisdom gleaned from a lifelong love of music, books and family.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode:
The Conversation: Stan on confronting his father's physical frailty for the first time, realising he's more of a provider than a hands-on carer, and what he's learned about eldership as he approaches it himself.

This Week's Reframe: Not everyone in a family is built for hands-on care, and that's not a failing. Knowing which role you play, and letting others play theirs, is what actually lets a family function without one person burning out.

Send this to anyone who feels guilty they're not the sibling doing the hands-on care, or anyone quietly renegotiating what role they play as their parents age.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Confronting a parent's physical frailty for the first time
- Why "provider, not carer" is a useful reframe for family caregiving guilt
- In-home support services and the role of extended family
- What eldership means once you're the one expected to carry it
- Forgiveness, and not expecting closure from your parents

Featured in this episode:
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Stan Grant — Journalist, author and Wiradjuri and Kamilaroi man. His most recent book is 'When Words Fail Us: Truth Beyond Time'.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music 'Club Sandwich' — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Maggie Beer, cook, author and founder of the Maggie Beer Foundation, joins Sarah Macdonald to talk about food, ageing and why what's on the plate in an aged care home matters more than most families realise.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode:
The Conversation: Maggie shares why aged care food is a wellbeing issue, not just a nutrition one, the physiology behind why older palates need more salt, sugar and flavour, and why leadership is the biggest predictor of whether a home's kitchen actually works for its residents.

This Week's Hack: Before you choose an aged care home for a parent, go and eat a meal there yourself, without telling them you're coming.

Send This To: Anyone touring aged care homes right now, or anyone who keeps dropping meals off to mum instead of cooking with her.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Why aged care food is a wellbeing issue, not just a nutrition one
- The one-line test for touring an aged care home
- How taste and smell change as we age, and what that means for cooking
- Cooking with your parent, not just for them
- Ageism, and the 80% of healthy ageing that's within our own control
- Maggie's own philosophy on staying creative, positive and purposeful with age

Featured in this episode:
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Maggie Beer AO — Cook, author, co-host of The Cook and the Chef, and founder of the Maggie Beer Foundation, which trains aged care kitchens nationally.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Natalie Siegel-Brown spent years holding the government to account for the funding, administration and regulation of Australia's aged care system as the Inspector General of Aged Care. She's also part of the sandwich generation herself, raising an 11-year-old while supporting her own ageing parents.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

In this episode:
The Conversation: Natalie brings both her professional expertise and her own experience as a sandwich generation parent to unpack why a system built on compassion and dignity in law still fails the sandwich generation in practice — through year-long wait times, punishing co-payments, and a contested assessment algorithm.

This Week's Hack: Get in early. Don't wait for a crisis to start the aged care assessment process — the wait itself is often what accelerates decline.

Listener Letter / Send-this-to: Send this to anyone who feels gaslit by the aged care system and just wants to understand why it's this hard.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Natalie's own experience as a sandwich generation parent, alongside her expertise as the former Inspector General of Aged Care
- The real cost of long aged care wait times, financially and personally
- Co-payments, and how they hit pensioners hardest
- The contested aged care assessment algorithm
- What Denmark, Singapore and Thailand do differently
- Australia's own hidden success story: the Veterans' Care Nursing Program

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

" I always find that there's part of me here, and there's another part of me swimming with the fish in the sea at the same time."

In this episode, Indira Naidoo joins Sarah to talk about her new role with the  Sydney Theatre Company, spending time under her tree, and the importance of creativity in her life.

They reflect on rediscovering play and creativity in midlife, the limits of journalism in changing narratives, and how crafts, gardening, and making art can calm anxiety and restore balance.

Indira shares her approach to ageing as a natural cycle, prioritising presence and family time after years of night work, and learning from nature and finding joy.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.