On this episode of Clemenz With a “Z,” I’m stepping outside my usual conversations about church and control and into something that’s been quietly sitting with me for years: the way we define success for our kids. Every June, neighborhoods fill with yard signs celebrating college commitments, and I can’t help but ask, where are the yard signs for future carpenters?

In this episode, I reflect on my own high school experience with “two tracks,” the subtle tone that labeled one path as less than, what I saw later as a teacher, and why all of this ultimately comes down to purpose.

Drawing on Viktor Frankl and even a surprising moment from Home Improvement, this conversation isn’t anti-college, it’s about dignity, meaning, and making room for every kind of intelligence. Because not every boy wants to build… but every boy deserves a world that believes he could.

If anything in this episode resonated with you and you would like to reach out to me you can drop me a line at clemenzwithaz@gmail.com or drop a DM at the clemenz with a "Z" instagram page.

You can head over to https://gofund.me/7ebb0524 every bit helps.

And if you’re looking for more reflection, honesty, and spiritual wrestling, check out my Substack: Devotions for the Deconstructing & Disillusioned, it’s a space for people who still have soul, but no longer fit in the boxes they were handed.

Thanks for being here.

In this episode of We Were In a Cult?, I sit down with Stef, a fellow “Kingdom kid” who grew up inside the ICOC to explore what it was like to be born into a system where church wasn’t just something you attended, but the entire framework for how you understood God, authority, obedience, and belonging.

This conversation isn’t about sensationalism or tearing people down. It’s about memory. It’s about untangling fear from faith. It’s about what happens when reverence and anxiety get braided together in childhood and what it takes, as adults, to slowly learn how to trust our own voices again.

Whether you were part of the ICOC, the ICC, another high-control church environment, or you’re simply curious about what that world felt like from the inside, this episode is an honest window into that experience.

If you are a member, were a member, or know someone who was a member of the ICOC or ICC and would like to share your story about life in and out of the church, I’d love to hear from you. Together, we can continue exploring the question, “We were in a cult?” and perhaps find some healing along the way. You can reach me via email at clemenzwithaz@gmail.com, or send me a DM on Instagram at the Clemenz With a Z podcast page.

If you want to support the podcast financially, you can head over to ClemenzWithAZ.com, there’s a merch store there with shirts, stickers, all kinds of stuff. You can also donate directly through the GoFundMe, the link’s in the show notes. Every bit goes a long way in helping me keep these conversations going.

And if you’re looking for something a little more regular, check out my Substack: Devotions for the Disillusioned & Deconstructing. That’s where I share short reflections, devotionals, and some extra behind-the-scenes thoughts that don’t always make it onto the podcast.

And of course, the best way you can support the show is by subscribing, rating, and leaving a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Share it with a friend, post it on your socials, drop it in a group chat, it all helps more than you know.

This podcast keeps going because of listeners like you showing up, engaging, and passing it on. So thank you for being here, for listening, and for being part of this messy middle with me.

Until next time, take care of yourselves, and each other.

What does it mean to grow up inside something that calls itself the Kingdom of God? In this episode, I reflect on what it was like to be a “Kingdom kid” born into the International Churches of Christ, shaped by its language, boundaries, fears, and promises from my earliest memories.

This isn’t a takedown. It’s an honest look at safety, identity, fear of being “out,” and the long process of learning to trust myself again after realizing the place that formed me wasn’t what I thought it was. If you grew up in a high-control church environment or if you’ve ever had to untangle your identity from the system that raised you, this conversation is for you. We weren’t crazy. We were kids.

If something in this conversation resonated with you especially if you were part of the ICOC, or you were what we called a “Kingdom kid” I’d really love to hear from you. Tell me where you’re at. Tell me how you’re healing. Tell me what this journey has looked like for you. You can email me at clemenzwithaz@gmail.com, or send me a DM over on Instagram at @clemenzwithazpodcast.

And if you’d ever want to share your story more publicly maybe as part of the "We Were in a Cult?" series here on the podcast let’s talk. These stories matter. And I think there’s a lot of us still untangling what this all meant.

If you want to support the podcast financially, you can head over to ClemenzWithAZ.com, there’s a merch store there with shirts, stickers, all kinds of stuff. You can also donate directly through the GoFundMe, the link’s in the show notes. Every bit goes a long way in helping me keep these conversations going.

And if you’re looking for something a little more regular, check out my Substack: Devotions for the Disillusioned & Deconstructing. That’s where I share short reflections, devotionals, and some extra behind-the-scenes thoughts that don’t always make it onto the podcast.

And of course, the best way you can support the show is by subscribing, rating, and leaving a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Share it with a friend, post it on your socials, drop it in a group chat, it all helps more than you know.

This podcast keeps going because of listeners like you showing up, engaging, and passing it on. So thank you for being here, for listening, and for being part of this messy middle with me.

We weren’t crazy. We were kids.

Until next time—take care of yourselves, and each other.