In this episode, Ingrid and Susan unpack Ingrid's perspective of organisation dynamics within an orchestra, from her point of view as assistant conductor. This role bridges the gap between playing and non-playing staff in an orchestra, and experiences the benefits and challenges of this border zone. This week, Ingrid draws out the commonalities between these two main parts of an orchestra, and lays out a way of engaging with both parts that makes the most of their connection and interdependence.

🌉 We need a wide bridge between performers and non-performers – the more people who know what’s going on in both parts, the better our organisations will function and the healthier our people will be.

🛠️ There are lots of jobs that need doing in an orchestra – and many of them are invisible. The more visible we can make every role, the better we can function as a unified team.

👂We need to learn to listen without judgement, to learn about the varied experiences of the people around us. This is not natural for many of us who have spent years learning to listen with judgement in musical contexts.

For more on seeing each others’ perspective, have a listen back to episode four of this season!

LINKS

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

We hear and use the phrase “artistic excellence” in so many ways – a justification for decisions, a way of talking about the status quo, a slur against those we disagree with. But what actually is it? In this episode, Susan and Ingrid deconstruct the idea of artistic excellence, from Susan’s perspective of relational health in an organisation, and Ingrid’s position of music making. They decipher what we mean when we say this phrase, and how we can use it intentionally to give the message we really mean to give.

🤹‍♂️ Different organisations, different ensembles, different positions all have different requirements for artistic excellence. The clearer we are on what we’re looking for, the clearer we can be about whether or not we found it. “I’ll know it when I hear it” is not enough.

🤝 We don’t have to agree on what “artistic excellence” means to each of us individually, but we do need to have consensus on what it means to all of us collectively. Affirm the range of opinions, and then find unity for this specific group.

🎨 Is “artistic excellence” code for “technical excellence?” If so, we can just say what we mean. We know that art cannot be judged by technical perfection, so artistic excellence is not a useful phrase for this kind of evaluation.

What does artistic excellence mean to you? What part of that do you want to keep, what do you want to move away from, and what might you want to add to what you have received from your teachers and heroes and colleagues? It’s so much better for everyone if we only hold ourselves to definitions we actually agree with.

LINKS

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

On this episode, Susan and Ingrid take the feedback discussion into Ingrid's area of expertise: conducting. They discuss how to receive feedback as a conductor, how to support conductors in their ongoing development, and how to create an atmosphere of healthy feedback in an orchestra. Conducting is not magic. It’s a skill like anything else, and needs to be developed and supported in the same way as any role in the orchestra.

🧑‍💼 A conductor needs to be aware of where feedback from players is coming from: varying levels of comfort with giving feedback, varying levels of expertise in giving feedback, and varying dynamics depending on the hierarchy of the orchestra.

🪢 There is inherent tension in developing conducting skills: conductors need to lead with authority and certainty, but growth requires flexibility and openness. Conductor training programs need guardrails to make sure conductors are given the kind of feedback they need, from the right people, in a safe environment – like an instrumental masterclass.

📪 Our system tends not to be set up to give conductors quality feedback – feedback can be delayed by months, and is by necessity heavily filtered. Supporting top quality conducting requires timely, specific feedback, and upfront agreements about how feedback is given.

LINKS

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.