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At the Water's Edge

At the Water's Edge

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The At the Water’s Edge Podcast explores national security and geopolitics from an insider’s perspective, looking at how national power, industrial policy, diplomacy, and military might shape our world and America’s place in it.All rights reserved by WRKdefined Politique et gouvernement Sciences politiques
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  • When the Military is Pulled into Politics | Robert Pape

    When the Military is Pulled into Politics | Robert Pape
    Sep 24 2026
    The midterms are five and a half weeks away, and Professor Robert Pape says most of the warnings are aimed at the wrong window. Political violence around elections isn't mainly about intimidating voters before Election Day. The real danger zone opens the moment the polls close and the counting starts, and it runs all the way through certification. The question is whether the losers will accept the loss. Pape joins Scott to talk about his new book, Our Own Worst Enemies: America in the Age of Violent Populism. It draws on five years of research and 20 national surveys of support for political violence in the United States. They get into the domestic escalation trap America is walking into, why the Iran war could give the president much stronger legal footing to use the National Guard or the military at home than he had in 2020, why the guardrails that held in 2020 are gone, and what service members need to understand before any order comes. Get the book: https://www.amazon.com/Our-Own-Worst-Enemies-Populism/dp/1620979586/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vs_iGQNW5qgYzmPAhBuYLw.d8JMeR0ou3Gdzt5HvoGc6u1M8nsI9WC3xo8dzqM5_Ec&dib_tag=se&keywords=9781620979587&linkCode=qs&qid=1790261780&s=books&sr=1-1 Robert Pape's Substack, The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com
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    31 min
  • The Invisible War: How Gray Zone Attacks Work | fmr. NSC director F. David Diaz

    The Invisible War: How Gray Zone Attacks Work | fmr. NSC director F. David Diaz
    Sep 24 2026
    Sabotage. Arson. Drone swarms over critical infrastructure. Cyber intrusions into American water utilities. Gray zone attacks are built to look like accidents, fall between agencies, and do their damage before anyone connects the dots. Fmr. NSC Director F. David Diaz, a Marine officer turned State Department and Joint Staff strategist who now teaches at Georgetown, joins Scott to break down his new Council on Foreign Relations report on gray zone attacks against U.S. allies and partners. They cover what makes an attack "gray zone," why deniability doesn't have to last forever to work, and the campaign recognition problem. They also get into why Russia is reportedly shifting its targeting toward smaller defense companies in Europe and why no one in the U.S. government clearly owns the problem. Plus: why institutional reform tends to be "written in blood," and what government and industry can do before it comes to that. Read the CFR report, Gray Zone Attacks Against U.S. Allies and Partners:https://www.cfr.org/reports/gray-zone-attacks-against-u-s-allies-and-partners Subscribe on Substack:https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg Note: Grayzone Advisory, sponsor of the show, is a consulting firm and not in the business of conducting gray zone operations. Learn more at grayzoneadvisory.com.
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    58 min
  • She Didn't Look Like a Veteran in Crisis. That Was the Problem.

    She Didn't Look Like a Veteran in Crisis. That Was the Problem.
    Sep 22 2026
    Sam Hargrove spent years being known for her smile — while privately battling a rage she couldn't explain, seven rounds of anger management, and a night she nearly drove her car into a tree. A communications specialist caught in an explosion in Iraq, Sam faced a specific kind of dismissal on top of everything else: "ain't nothing wrong with you," the running joke aimed at a "chair force" veteran who didn't fit anyone's picture of what combat trauma looks like. This conversation covers the explosion, the personality change that followed, the moment her godson saw her rage and got scared, the night in the rain that nearly ended differently, and how Wounded Warrior Project's Warrior Care Network and an inpatient program at Emory gave her the follow-up care the VA's "initial push" didn't. She's now a WWP peer leader and national campaign team member — someone other veterans call at 3 a.m. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or reach the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, press 1. This is Episode 3 of Still Here, a five-part series produced in partnership with Wounded Warrior Project for Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. Catch up with Episode 1 (Zach) and Episode 2 (Lindsey) if you haven't yet. Episode 4 — Joe, a fellow Green Beret whose story takes a very different turn — drops this Sunday. Chapters: 0:00 Cold open & recap of the series so far 1:06 Welcome, and introducing Sam 1:37 A generational connection: same war, different era 2:54 Setting the scene: an explosion in Iraq 3:20 Seven anger management classes, and the day her godson saw her rage 6:15 "Black female in the chair force": identity, stigma, and the VA 6:58 "Ain't nothing wrong with you" — the running joke 8:44 The explosion itself, and what she still doesn't know 9:31 How the rage and drinking built over time 10:36 "Shut up and color": why she never sought help in uniform 12:33 A hair-trigger she couldn't explain 13:23 Coming home: losing the Fourth of July 14:16 The night she decided to end it 16:45 What was scarier: dying, or asking for help 17:25 VA vs. Wounded Warrior Project: why follow-up mattered 18:35 Inside the Emory inpatient program 21:28 Her Emory circle vs. her military circle 22:17 Losing people to suicide, including an uncle in November 24:29 "He wasn't weak, he just couldn't fight anymore" 26:43 What to do if you're worried about someone 28:17 "Check on your happy friends" 29:55 Next week: Joe's story Learn more about Wounded Warrior Project: woundedwarriorproject.org This episode is brought to you by Grayzone Advisory. At the Water's Edge is hosted by Scott Kelly. Follow for weekly conversations on national security, geopolitics, and the people who serve.
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    30 min
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