Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist Tim Weiner joins Marcel Dirsus to discuss his book, The Mission: The CIA in the 21st Century.

This episode is a deep dive into the CIA, the failures of the War on Terror, and the future of modern warfare. Weiner traces the agency’s evolution from the Cold War through 9/11, revealing how fear drove the CIA into torture, secret prisons, and paramilitary operations that reshaped America’s moral standing.

He argues that while the agency has had tactical successes—like dismantling nuclear smuggling networks and stealing Vladimir Putin’s invasion plans for Ukraine—it faces a strategic crisis.

The conversation warns of a catastrophic intelligence failure fueled by Donald Trump’s rejection of intelligence, ideological purges within the national security apparatus, and China’s surveillance-driven operations.

Timestamps:

00:00 – Vladimir Putin’s shadow war across Europe

00:20 – Introduction: Tim Weiner & The Mission

00:49 – The CIA after the Cold War and before 9/11

01:01 – Ignored warnings about Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden

02:59 – The Bush administration’s obsession with Saddam Hussein

03:29 – Iraq, neoconservatives, and the democracy delusion

04:20 – How 9/11 transformed the CIA

04:49 – Fear, raw intelligence, and the road to war

06:36 – Torture, black sites, and “enhanced interrogation”

07:17 – How the CIA justified torture

09:26 – Did torture actually work?

09:41 – The A.Q. Khan nuclear smuggling operation

11:26 – Pakistan, the ISI, and playing both sides

12:47 – The CIA’s lost focus on Russia and China

13:14 – Russia, political warfare, and the 2016 election

15:17 – Stealing Putin’s Ukraine invasion plans

17:39 – CIA support for Ukraine before and after the invasion

18:02 – Why subscribing helps the podcast

18:15 – How the CIA rebuilt Ukraine’s intelligence services

20:18 – Trump, Putin, and spheres of influence

21:11 – Authoritarianism and the logic of force

22:20 – Trump vs. intelligence agencies

23:05 – Ideological purges inside the CIA

25:35 – China’s intelligence services and surveillance strategy

27:45 – CIA successes—and failures—against China

29:04 – What CIA officers are really like

31:38 – Democracy, dictatorship, and a personal warning

31:49 – Closing remarks

About The Next Best:

Deep dives into geopolitics, international relations, and history with political scientist Marcel Dirsus. If you found this conversation valuable, please subscribe and leave a comment.