Today, I am joined by two of my oldest friends and colleagues from the advertising business. Jimmy is our resident Oxford scholar and proud libertarian, and Kevin is a former media executive, and very vocal Trump supporter.

As shared during our interview, the three of us have been jarring about politics on a private thread for over a decade now…and please note that we argue like brothers (without the fisticuffs), while eventually hugging it out.

During our chat, we walked through the November 4th elections, specifically the Governors races with Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey, and Abigail Spanberger of Virginia respectively. We then dove into Zohran Mamdani’s decisive win as New York City’s new mayor, and his many lofty promises and remedies to NYC’s myriad problems on affordability.

Our next areas of debate included why ICE is failing in its duty, how blowing up boats in the Caribbean is probably not a good idea, why Congress is failing for our least fortunate on SNAP, and why Trump’s tariffs are not working as planned.

We all had a blast…and I hope you learn something (other than Kevin is wrong most of the time) :-)

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In today’s episode, I sat down with three conservative people I’ve never met before named Bill, Mary, and Stephen, to talk about all things Trump. And I wanted to host such a show to highlight that we (Left and Right) are not as divided and hateful to one another when we sit down and talk like adults. And… this episode proved just that.

Bill was the resident MAGA representative during our debate. I encountered Bill due to his daily arguments with my friend Terry on Facebook. To say it nicely, Bill likes to stir up shit as a proud member of MAGA, and is a very vocal fan of President Trump.

I’ve watched Bill interact online for the better half of a year, and decided to debate him on a subject about a week or so ago… which he refused to do, while offering up whataboutisms as a repeated response to my many questions. So… knowing that I wasn’t getting anywhere with our online interaction, I asked Bill to join me on the show so we could debate in person… and he graciously accepted. He then asked “Do you mind if I bring my friends Mary and Steve?”

Well… how could I say no?

Both Mary and Steve agreed to do this interview as long as I did not publish our Zoom interview on my YouTube channel…so this interview is in audio only.

We began our chat by discussing the tragedy of the Charlie Kirk assassination…which quickly moved to our discussions on Erika Kirk’s heartfelt speech about her husband at his recent memorial/rally in Arizona.

We discussed the recent drama about the “indefinite suspension” of Jimmy Kimmel and Brandon Carr’s overreach and public comments as the head of the FCC.

When then free-formed a bit around topics like our federal government becoming the largest shareholder in Intel, and why that may be a conflict worth analyzing - which quickly jumped to the Trump tariffs and how these specific actions are affecting our farmers here in America.

We closed our debate by discussing the many constitutional violations of ICE, and why the J6’ers deserved a blanket clemency by President Trump (yes, many folks believe this level of nonsense).

The good news…we held a very spirited and sometimes contentious debate…without any name calling, or ad hominems of any kind. And as you will soon hear, it wasn’t because we agreed on everything (we did not).

I hope you learn as much as I did from our debate. And please leave your comments…I will respond in kind.

Rich Klein is the Managing Partner of McLarty Media…a repeat guest…and someone I now consider a friend.

Rich was part of the 1992 Clinton/Gore presidential campaign, helping to craft policy and messaging on emerging global issues… and was subsequently appointed by President Clinton to head the speechwriting staff and be part of the policy planning office at the Department of Commerce.

I invited Rich back on the program to talk about his recent piece on his own Subtack called, “The Wisdom of David Gergen”. I was so touched by the piece that I wanted to share it with our listeners.

During our chat, we talked about Mr. Gergen’s decency, his acumen in bipartisan politics…and Rich shared a few personal stories about their friendship along the way.

I hope you enjoy your time with Rich as much as I did.

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Fay Johnson is an expert in the field of Trust & Safety. Johnson’s tenure combines deep expertise in behavioral science with hands-on experience in product development, content moderation, and online safety at leading technology companies including Meta, Twitter, and Nextdoor.

Johnson has designed and implemented systems that promote respectful interactions, fairness, and community trust, shaping how billions of people engage online. While at Meta, Fay was the product lead on designing and building the Oversight Board, and its integration into the broader Facebook ecosystem.

She is currently a fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein Institute for Internet and Society where she is doing applied research and product development focused on depolarization and increasing civility in online discourse.

During our chat, we discussed Meta’s decision to cut back on Fact Checking, which includes both long-term and short-term consequences.

We also dove into the roles of platforms like Meta, Twitter, and Nextdoor – specifically, if they have any moral or ethical responsibility with their Tenants and Conditions.

We then talked specifically about some of the lessons she learned while running her product teams, and what the future may hold for these platforms with technology and systems like AI and Community Notes as possible remedies for what ails our online communities.

I hope you learn as much as I did from Fay.

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Tobias Rose-Stockwell is a writer, technologist and media researcher who explores the effects of social media on society and democracy. His work has been featured in major outlets such as FastCompany, Quartz, Medium, NPR, the BBC and many others. As a media researcher, he has advised the directors of Gannett, one of the largest news organizations in America, as well as local news outlets in the US, on digital strategy. Tobias was previously a guest lecturer at Stanford University on the topic of social enterprise design and technology ventures. He is currently a strategic advisor to Jonathan Haidt's organization, OpenMind, which focuses on depolarizing communities online.

During our chat, we talked at length about his new book: Outrage Machine: How Tech Amplifies Discontent, Disrupts Democracy―And What We Can Do About It.

The topics discussed include all of the usual suspects: Are our phones hurting our children? Has social media retrained our brains? Have algorithms remapped our chosen content? How is technology changing the industry of journalism and our democracy at large?

I had a wonderful time learning from Tobias, and I hope you also enjoy hearing about his story…and his decades-long focus on how technology is changing our world.

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Joe Hack spent 12 years as a senior advisor in both the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives, including more than six years as Chief of Staff to U.S. Senator Deb Fischer (NE).

Prior to that, he worked for Senate Whip Jon Kyl as Communications Director and chief spokesman. Joe is also a veteran of the U.S. House of Representatives, where he served as Press Secretary and Legislative Assistant for Rep. J. Randy Forbes (VA-04). He began his career in the office of Senator George Voinovich (OH)

During this episode of Joey Squared, we talk about The Alphabet People, our beloved LGBTQ+ community, and why they are not a monolith, nor should they be treated as one.

We then talked at length about one of my favorite journalists, Nellie Bowles and her new book, Morning After the Revolution: Dispatches from the Wrong Side of History - and why it was such a romping good read.

Nellie’s collections of stories proved to be a wickedly funny treatise about the ideological capture of her former colleagues and editors at The New York Times. And Joey and I use her witty and engaging stories as a cursor to our discussions about the fringe left of my party, and how their narratives and messaging are being widely rejected by the majority of Americans today.

I hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did.

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Nick Quested is a British filmmaker and producer of documentary films, music videos, and TV commercials. He is the executive director and owner of Goldcrest Films.

Quested has produced over 40 films, including several war documentaries directed by Sebastian Junger. Prior to producing, he was an award-winning music video director. Quested directed more than 100 music videos and commercials, working with artists including Dr. Dre, Jay-Z and Sting.

Nick has won two Emmys and a DuPont-Columbia Award, and has been nominated for an Oscar and a PGA Award. His company, Goldcrest Films, has won the Academy Award for Best Picture twice.

Leading up to and during the 2021 United States Capitol Attack, Nick had been embedded with the Proud Boys, a far-right organization involved in the attack. In June of 2022 Nick testified – under subpoena on live television – to the US House of Representatives January 6 committee. As part of his testimony, Nick revealed that his crew had filmed a garage meeting between Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio and Oath Keepers founder and leader Stewart Rhodes on January 5, 2021, the night before the attack.

During our chat, we talked about why Nick chose to live his life behind a camera, how he pivoted from shooting hip hop music videos to war documentaries, where he literally put his life on the line.

We then discussed how he found his way into the inner sanctum of The Proud Boys – and how and why Enrique Tarrio allowed him to film the illegal activity of his Boys, and how this footage in his new film, 64 Days, helped put many of these Jan 6th rioters behind bars.

I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did.

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Check out 64 Days:

Website: www.64daysfilm.com

IG: @64daysfilm

Stream the film: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/64days

Brad Berens wears a few different hats: he's a strategic advisor and senior fellow at the Center for the Digital Future at USC Annenberg, Principal at Big Digital Idea Consulting, serves on a variety of boards, and has spent many years working in digital media. He's also a science fiction novelist and writes a weekly newsletter, The Brad Berens Weekly Dispatch on Substack, and also on LinkedIn. He has a Ph.D. in Shakespeare studies from U.C. Berkeley, where he was an award-winning teacher.

Brad joined me to discuss Dr. Jonathan Haidt’s newest book, The Anxious Generation, How the Great Rewiring of Childhood is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness.

Brad is a longtime friend and colleague from my time in the world of advertising. And over the years, he has made it clear that he is “Less than impressed” with Dr. Haidt’s many books and conclusions in the field of social psychology.

In today’s chat, Brad quickly points out that Dr. Haidt’s title alone is flawed - because there is no “Epidemic of Mental Illness” nor is there any causal data to back up this very controversial claim.

During our time together, I admit my biases… and do my best to defend my years-long intellectual crush on Dr. Haidt…in spite of Brad’s cogent and valid concerns about the book’s lack of unidirectional causality, specific to its title and theoretical positioning in the field of social psychology.

As usual with my time with Brad, I had a blast, and learned a ton. I hope you enjoy this episode, too.

Brad Berens’ Socials:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradberens/

And The Brad Berens Weekly Dispatch: