What does it look like to be a faithful Christian in the public square without losing your soul in the process? In this conversation, host Rebecca Cooks sits down with Justin Giboney — attorney, ordained minister, political strategist, and co-founder of the AND Campaign — for a candid, thought-provoking dialogue on faith, politics, and moral imagination.

Drawing from his book Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around, Giboney challenges Christians to move beyond partisan tribalism, recover the bold example of the Civil Rights generation, and engage culture with truth, justice, and the transforming power of the gospel.

WHAT YOU WILL LEARN

• How Giboney went from knocking on doors in Southwest Atlanta to running campaigns — and what he learned along the way
• What a “culture war” actually is, where it started, and why the Black church refused to be defined by it
• Why fighting against evil doesn’t automatically make you good — and what the Civil Rights generation understood that we’ve largely forgotten
• What “moral imagination” means: the ability to see not just what is, but what ought to be based on God’s character and promises
• Practical advice for Christians who feel stuck between candidates — including Giboney’s framework for values-based voting
• How to stay engaged when politics feels exhausting — and when it’s actually okay to step back
• The Shirley Chisholm story: what moral imagination looks like in action, and why it still has the power to change people

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Justin E. Giboney (JD, Vanderbilt) is the co-founder and president of the AND Campaign, a Christian civic organization that equips Christians to engage in politics with the love and truth of Jesus Christ. He is an ordained minister, attorney, and political strategist whose work has appeared in the New York Times and Christianity Today. He is the author of Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around (IVP, 2025) and co-author of Compassion (&) Conviction (IVP, 2020).

RESOURCES

• Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around by Justin Giboney — ivpress.com
• The AND Campaign — andcampaign.org

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Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

Dallas Willard believed that the aim of God in human history is the formation of a community of loving persons — people apprenticed to Jesus, shaped by his character, and prepared to co-reign with him in eternity. In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host Dan Hummel sits down with Keas Keasler, author of the first comprehensive academic study of Willard’s theology. Together they trace Willard’s life from Depression-era Missouri to the halls of USC, unpack the philosophical roots of his spiritual formation theology, and ask why his vision for discipleship feels especially urgent in the church today.

WHAT YOU WILL LEARN

• Why Keas Keasler spent seven years researching Dallas Willard — and what he discovered that surprised him
• The key biographical facts of Willard’s life: a broken childhood, a pivotal choice between philosophy and seminary, and 47 years at USC
• How Willard’s friendship with Richard Foster and a small Quaker church in Southern California helped birth the modern spiritual formation movement
• Why Willard chose phenomenology — the study of consciousness — and how it shaped his theology of transformation
• What it means that Willard was a committed metaphysical and epistemic realist — and why that grounds everything he taught
• Willard’s vision of humans as co-rulers with God: what it means, what the parable of the pounds has to do with it, and why formation is training for that calling
• The famous Willard line: “Grace is not opposed to effort, but to earning” — and the sophisticated theology behind it
• The Golden Triangle of spiritual formation: the Holy Spirit, the spiritual disciplines, and the ordinary decisions of daily life
• The “sanctification gap” that Richard Lovelace identified in the 1970s — and why it has only widened since
• Why there is a crisis of character in the church today, and what Willard’s vision offers as a remedy

GUEST BIO

Keas Keasler (PhD, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam) is Associate Professor of Spiritual Theology at Friends University, where he also serves as Program Director of the MA in Christian Spiritual Formation and Leadership. He is a Research Affiliate of the Martin Institute for Christianity and Culture and the Dallas Willard Research Center at Westmont College. An ordained Baptist minister, Keasler has traveled to over forty countries and preached on six continents.

RESOURCES & LINKS

• Kingdom Apprenticeship by Keas Keasler (IVP Academic)
• Hearing God by Dallas Willard (IVP)
• Spirit of the Disciplines by Dallas Willard
• The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard
• Renovation of the Heart by Dallas Willard
• Becoming Dallas Willard by Gary Moon
• The Kingdom Among Us by Michael Stewart Robb
• Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster
• Conversatio.org – Dallas W

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

Artificial intelligence is everywhere — but what does it mean for us as humans, as embodied creatures, and as people of faith? In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host Dan Johnson sits down with Noreen Herzfeld, a computer scientist turned theologian who has been thinking seriously about AI and humanity since the 1980s. Together they explore why we are driven to create AI in our own image, what Christian theology says about embodiment and relationship, and why the church should be cautious about AI.

WHAT YOU WILL LEARN

• Why humans are compelled to create AI in their own image — and what that reveals about us
• How the Imago Dei (image of God) shifts from intellect to relationship in 20th-century theology — and why it matters for AI
• What Christianity's strong theology of embodiment means in a world increasingly dominated by language and the cloud
• Why AI chatbot "relationships" are fundamentally different from — and inferior to — human relationships
• Where AI has real, appropriate uses (narrow, domain-specific tools like AlphaFold) and where it falls dangerously short
• Why Noreen sees limited good use for AI in ministry — and significant risks in pastoral care and counseling settings
• How large language models differ fundamentally from earlier AI — and why they hallucinate
• The collision course between AI energy consumption and climate change
• Why Noreen would advise most people: don't use it at all

GUEST BIO

Noreen Herzfeld is one of the rare scholars who holds advanced degrees in both computer science and Christian theology. She earned her M.S. and M.A. from Penn State, took a sabbatical to study why humans want to build AI in our image, and ended up earning a Ph.D. in Theology from the Graduate Theological Union at Berkeley. She has been teaching and writing at the intersection of technology and faith for over two decades. Her books include In Our Image: Artificial Intelligence and the Human Spirit (Fortress, 2002), Technology and Religion: Remaining Human in a Co-Created World (Templeton, 2009), and The Artifice of Intelligence: Divine and Human Relationship in a Robotic World (Fortress, 2023). She also directs the Benedictine Spirituality and Ecotheology Program at St. John's School of Theology and Seminary and is a Senior Research Associate at the Institute for Philosophical and Religious Studies in Koper, Slovenia.

RESOURCES & LINKS

• Noreen Herzfeld's faculty page: csbsju.edu/sot/person/noreen-herzfeld/
• In Our Image: Artificial Intelligence and the Human Spirit — (Fortress Press, 2002)
• Technology and Religion: Remaining Human in a Co-Created World — (Templeton, 2009)
• The Artifice of Intelligence: Divine and Human Relationship in a Robotic World — (Fortress, 2023)
• AlphaFold (DeepMind protein folding AI) — deepmind.google/technologies/alphafold
• Sherry Turkle, MIT sociologist — referenced in discussion of chatbot relationships

Send us Fan Mail

CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour