"To have faith is to trust love," which is where the bulk of Wayne and Kyle's conversation goes this week as they come through the mailbag. There are comments about relational community, how prayer changes as trust grows, and the McDonald's Toy Syndrome. They finish with one email that talks about the importance of trusting God's love and not knowledge alone. While human love can be weak and conditional, God's love is the strongest force in the universe and opens people to truth and reality. Those who desire love will recognize him when he comes; those who desire knowledge will see him as a threat.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• Beyond Sundays
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

How do you view friendships around you, especially those that may be short-lived? Do you shy away, not wanting to get hurt, exploit them for what you can get, or engage them as an opportunity to share life, even if it won't last long? Wayne and Kyle discuss what a healthy mindset looks like as we engage others, whether it be short-term or long-term. Be true to your "yuck meter" so you won't be manipulated. Learn the power of active listening as a gift to give others by giving them your full attention, a curious mind, and a calm presence, while resisting the desire to make judgments or give advice. Of course, all of that begins in our growing trust in Father's love and realizing that anything that argues against our belovedness to him is a lie we need to walk away from.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• My Friend Luis podcast
• My Grandmother's Hands by Resmaa Menakem. Quote Wayne read on the podcast: “Talking with another person to process what you learned or experienced doesn't mean having a friendly chat with them. It means describing an event that had meaning for you, while the other person listens with caring, full attention, a calm presence, and a settled body. This might involve both of you letting you tremble, cry, sway, shake your head, or move your body in some other way as it metabolizes the experience. Therapists call this active listening. Being an active listener involves not interrupting; not making judgments; not asking questions other than to make sure you understand; not giving advice or offering explanations; and not jumping in with a story of your own. It's important to reach out to others for this type of support. It's just as important to allow others to reach out to you for it.”
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

"The enemy's chief strategy is to make dead things look alive." And wow, does it ever work! In the backdrop of yet another revelation of moral failure on the part of a Christian celebrity, Kyle and Wayne discuss how the theology of love can fail us in our desperate moments. The question remains, however: Why doesn't love and faith transform even its most ardent advocates? How can people give lip service to love and grace for decades and yet remain so utterly untransformed by it? Unless we discover God's kind of love inside his presence with us, we will remain unchanged and still act in our own expedience rather than treating others around us justly. And in the aftermath of failure, how does love restore the victims who suffer because of it and the one who fell to temptation?

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• My Grandmother's Hands
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

"All healing involves discomfort—but so does refusing to heal." So writes Resmaa Menakem in his book, My Grandmother's Hands, which Wayne and Sara have just finished reading. The book is about healing from traumatic pain, especially around trauma related to race. Quotes from the book draw Wayne and Klye into a discussion about clean pain and dirty pain as they apply to emotional hurt and wounds. Our responses or reactions to our own pain can either put more hurt in the world, both for ourselves and others, or our responses to pain can promote healing. The difference is whether we come at healing from an agitated state or from a calm, settled body, which we can find in the peace and presence of Jesus. This also points out why our society cannot have a reasoned, healing conversation about race today—both sides come at it from agitation and frustration.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• My Grandmother's Hands
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

"Fear makes us selfish," and no fear more so than the fear of death. A book Wayne recently read provoked his thinking about death and how the fear of it can make people act in destructive ways. So, he and Kyle discuss the fear of death, and how Jesus came to free those who are enslaed to it. Instead of helping people find that freedom, Christianity has often added to people's anxiety about death by threatening them with the consequences that could lie behind it. How would people be in the world if they no longer feared dying, but saw it as a transformation, much like the caterpillar yielding to the chrysalis? Both expressed their hope for a future where relationships are restored and wounds are healed.

Podcast Notes:

• The video recording of this podcast
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

"Love fulfills the law because it fills us." After a brief conversation about a perspective shift in challenging times and sharing inexhaustible love, Kyle and Wayne discuss finding our fullness in him. They plough through an article about desire. It turns out humans enjoy getting the thing they desire than having it. The dopamine hit that comes from procuring what's desired doesn't last long, which is why so many are almost immediately out seeking the next new thing. What if the root of our desires is for God himself? Trying to fill that desire with anything else would always fail. Finding our fullness it him would let us live with gratitude and appreciation, no matter what we possess, rather than the constant yearning and dissatisfaction.

Podcast Notes:

• The video recording of this podcast.
• A $100,000 New Car Won't Make You Happy - Article Wayne read from
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.
• Lifestream Store with 25% discount through Christmas with the promo code: Christmas 25

How will the bride of Christ be revealed in the world, especially since she is so fractured into thousands of denominations? Perhaps there is already a parable of that in the Creation, in the murmuration of starlings and the schools of fish. Scientists call it behavioral synchronization, but maybe it is something more. It now seems that for a brief time, starlings and fish become part of an interconnected organism. Kyle and Wayne discuss the idea of "unmanaged community" and how it reflects the organic, spiritual connections among believers. These connections, often spontaneous and unstructured, can be more authentic than human-managed communities. While we get glimpses of it now and then, perhaps the time is coming for a global "murmuration" of believers that comprise the Bride of Christ. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Podcast Notes:

• The video recording of this podcast.
• Murmuration Video - not quite the one Wayne referred to. And here's another one with music.
• The Secret of Secrets
• Finding Church by Wayne Jacobsen
• Lifestream Store with 25% discount through Christmas with the promo code: Christmas 25

In a world that seeks to crush us into its mold, having the space to contemplate, explore, question, and grow is a rare and delicious treat. That's where Wayne and Kyle landed today after reading an email from a listener. That thread ran through their other conversation about seeing beyond the home team/away team binary that religion throws at us and how listening to God has changed over the course of their lives. They also discuss how we can better facilitate that space for others instead of trying to cram the breath of the Spirit into a curriculum, presentation, or system.

Podcast Notes:

• The video recording of this podcast.
• When the Maps Run Out - the podcast Wayne referred to in this podcast.
• Lifestream Store with 25% discount through Christmas with the promo code: Christmas 25