In Part Two of our conversation with Alexander Shaia, we move beyond theory and into practice—exploring what spiritual transformation actually looks like in real life.

In Part One, we traced the foundations of Dr. Shaia’s work and why his approach to the Gospels resonates so deeply with people navigating faith, doubt, and deconstruction. In this episode, we go deeper—into lived experience, inner change, and the courage it takes to move forward when certainty falls away.

Dr. Shaia shares how spiritual frameworks are meant to form us, not control us, and why the Christian tradition—at its best—has always been about movement, growth, and becoming. This conversation speaks especially to those who feel stuck between belief and disbelief, longing for a faith that can hold both honesty and hope.

Alexander Shaia is a theologian, speaker, and author best known for his work on the transformational structure of the Gospels. His book, Heart and Mind, explores the fourfold journey found within the Christian tradition and presents a compelling alternative to rigid, belief-based models of faith.

Dr. Shaia’s work has become especially meaningful for those who are deconstructing inherited belief systems while still seeking depth, wisdom, and spiritual grounding.

Ph.D., Clinical Psychology, California Institute of Integral Studies, San Francisco, CA, 1991

Graduate Certificate, Pastoral Psychotherapy, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA, 1982

Master of Religious Education, Seattle University, Seattle, WA, 1981

M.A., Counseling Education, University of Alabama in Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, 1976

B.A., Cultural Anthropology, University of Notre Dame du lac, Notre Dame, IN, 1974

Jungian and Sandplay Studies, 1973 - Current; month intensive with Dora M. Kalff – Jungian analyst & originator of Sandplay, Zollikon, Switzerland, July/August 1989

Psychosynthesis Certificate, Psychosynthesis Training Institute, San Francisco, CA, Two year training, 1986-1988

Website: www.quadratos.org

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/quadratos/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Quadratos1/featured

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderJohnShaia/

If you’d like to help support The Deconstructionists Podcast and go deeper with the kinds of conversations we’re having here, check out our brand-new Patreon.

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Website: www.thedeconstructionists.org

For many people, the holiday season isn’t filled with joy and nostalgia — it’s filled with grief, loneliness, exhaustion, and complicated memories. This episode is especially for those who find this time of year difficult.

In Part One of this two-part holiday conversation, we’re joined by our dear friend Alexander Shaia for a reflective, unhurried dialogue about meaning, presence, and the wisdom found in honoring seasons rather than fighting them.

Rather than offering platitudes or quick fixes, Dr. Shaia invites us to slow down — to consider what it looks like to live faithfully and humanely when certainty feels thin and the world feels overwhelming. Drawing from ancient Christian wisdom, lived experience, and deep compassion, this conversation offers space to breathe, reflect, and feel less alone.

This is not a teaching session or a debate. It’s a pastoral, contemplative conversation — meant to be received gently, especially by those who are carrying more than they can name this season.

Part Two will continue the conversation, moving deeper into themes of hope, transformation, and what it means to move forward without rushing resolution.

Dr. Alexander Shaia is a theologian, speaker, author, and Quadratos-trained scholar best known for his work on the ancient Christian fourfold Gospel model, a framework that predates modern linear approaches to Scripture and spiritual formation.

His work focuses on helping individuals and communities rediscover cyclical wisdom, spiritual maturity, and transformative faith — especially for those who feel disillusioned, wounded, or worn down by rigid or overly simplistic expressions of Christianity.

Dr. Shaia is widely respected for his ability to bridge scholarship, spirituality, and real human experience, offering language for faith that is honest, compassionate, and deeply grounded in history.

• Official Website:
• https://www.alexandershaia.com & https://www.quadratos.org/
• Books by Dr. Shaia:
• Heart and Mind: The Four-Gospel Journey for Radical Transformation
• Returning From Camino
• Speaking & Teaching:
• Information about events, workshops, and courses can be found on his website.

Ph.D., Clinical Psychology, California Institute of Integral Studies, San Francisco, CA, 1991

Graduate Certificate, Pastoral Psychotherapy, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA, 1982

Master of Religious Education, Seattle University, Seattle, WA, 1981

M.A., Counseling Education, University of Alabama in Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, 1976

B.A., Cultural Anthropology, University of Notre Dame du lac, Notre Dame, IN, 1974

Jungian and Sandplay Studies, 1973 - Current; month intensive with Dora M. Kalff – Jungian analyst & originator of Sandplay, Zollikon, Switzerland, July/August 1989

Psychosynthesis Certificate, Psychosynthesis Training Institute, San Francisco, CA, Two year training, 1986-1988

➡️ Part Two of this holiday conversation continues with deeper reflection on wisdom, hope, and what it means to live faithfully in uncertain times.

If this episode resonates with you, consider sharing it with someone who might need a quieter, gentler voice this season.

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or on social media!

Support: https://patreon.com/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Episode Summary:

Part 2 of our conversation with philosopher and friend of the show Peter Rollins goes even deeper into the psychological, existential, and communal dynamics of faith and identity. If Part 1 set the stage, Part 2 pulls the curtain all the way back.

This is one of those conversations that lingers. It’s dense, it’s provocative, and it’s full of the kind of insights that Pete has become known for all around the world.

Resources & References:

• Peter Rollins’ official website: https://peterrollins.com
• Pyrotheology gatherings, seminars, and resources
• Peter’s books and lectures on belief, identity, and desire

Connect With Us:

• Website: www.thedeconstructionists.org
• Instagram: @deconstructionistspodcast
• Email: deconstructionistspodcast@gmail.com
• If you enjoyed this two-part conversation, share it with a friend and tag us on social media.